About this episode

Retired Delta Force Sergeant Major Kyle Lamb returns to the Silvercore Podcast to talk about his new book, The Next Mission, co-authored with his wife Melynda. Kyle spent 21 years in the US Army, 15 of them in Delta Force, and fought in the Battle of Mogadishu in 1993.

The day episode 124 finished recording, Kyle got a phone call telling him he had bladder cancer. He had just told Travis, on tape, that he was living as though he had six months left. What happened next changed how he and Melynda live.

In this conversation:

The phone call after the last podcast, and the lung finding that followed for his wife Why The Next Mission reads the Bible through a special operations lens, and why Bible scholars are not the audience Ehud the left-handed assassin, and how researching a bronze dagger led to Herodotus and tin from ancient Britain The Apostle Paul chained to a Roman soldier, and the two words that would have stopped his beating Why Melynda's name is on the cover, and the five chapters she red-X'd out of Leadership in the Shadows Two poems read aloud that have never been published anywhere Twelve years without a drink, and the conversation in Hawaii that changed how he saw it Why the Christian who did the most for his faith in two years is a Muslim friend What tribe actually means, and why it has nothing to do with skin, geography, or religion The redactions left visible in the book, and the note inside the cover confirming no AI was used

The Next Mission is 432 pages, published June 6, 2026. Signed and personalized copies are available direct from Viking Tactics. It is priced at $27.17, a reference to Proverbs 27:17, iron sharpens iron.

Chapters

00:00 The best conversations happen off the record

01:41 Welcome back, Kyle Lamb

02:19 The year-end question, and what happened that same day

03:40 "Mr. Lamb, you've got bladder cancer"

04:50 Then it was his wife

06:20 What he said to God in the truck

11:20 Time is the gift

13:30 Nims Purja and purpose after achievement

16:20 What's the mission today?

23:00 How the book started: Ehud and the bronze dagger

26:10 The Apostle Paul, chained to a Roman soldier

30:15 Battlefield reflections and the audiobook

31:15 Why Melynda's name is on the cover

33:50 Speaking, elk season, and his grandson's first hunt

36:10 The attention span of a squirrel

39:40 The Kyle pile

45:40 The guns he'd never get rid of

50:20 Commander's intent: reach the unreachable

51:30 Don't wear your faith as a badge

55:20 The Muslim friend who sent him a Bible verse

1:04:20 What tribe actually means

1:08:30 How his prayers changed

1:11:50 Twelve years without a drink

1:14:30 What an answer to prayer looks like

1:21:00 The farther from the flagpole

1:26:20 "If I shoot guns, I get paid"

1:29:20 The path of Musashi

1:34:40 Two poems, never released anywhere

1:46:10 What the public doesn't see

1:47:20 The five chapters his wife red-X'd

1:50:50 Putting the light on evil

1:51:50 Meek is not weak

1:56:40 Cutting twenty percent

2:00:40 Why he writes at a sixth grade level

2:15:20 Do you feel guilt?

2:22:20 The motorcycle in the classroom

2:26:30 Where to get the book, and why it costs $27.17

2:28:20 The redactions and the unit approval

Resources & partners

Kyle Lamb and Viking Tactics

Signed copies: https://www.vikingtactics.com/shop/the-next-mission/

Stay in the Fight Foundation: https://www.vikingtactics.com/stay-in-the-fight-foundation/

Team VTAC Podcast: https://kylelamb.libsyn.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vikingtactics

Travis Bader: [00:00:00] Without fail, the best parts of a conversation happens before I press record or after I press stop. Kyle and I covered a lot of ground in this one. Some of it didn't make it into the episode. We got to talking about rapid target acquisition with a pistol, and to that end, my friend Trevor at Armament Technology sent me an SAI mini red dot.

ATI are the Canadians behind Tangent Theta, which is as good as glass gets, and they run the SAI line of LPVOs and red dots. That optic is getting shipped off to Kyle, along with a few other things. If you want in on the conversations that happen outside of the recorded podcast, that's The Outpost. Every week, free and included with Silvercore Club [00:01:00] memberships, and they're built to sharpen you.

We also talk about something new that I've been building. It's called The Outpost Arcade, and it's at play.silvercore.ca. It's absolutely free for anyone. I like puzzles and simple games. They help me reset and learn at the same time. This one runs through speed flashcards on hunting, shooting, and outdoor terminology, plus animal identification.

Silvercore Club members got early access to The Outpost Arcade, and any member who's played is entered to win their own SAI red dot. Now, without further ado, let's get to it. Today's guest appeared on Silvercore Podcast 124 and on last year's year-end reflection. Other notable achievements include a couple of books and a stint in the Army.

That stint was 21 years, 15 of them in Delta Force. He came home from [00:02:00] Mogadishu with a Silver Star, which he has not once ever brought up with me. Welcome back to the Silvercore Podcast, Kyle Lamb.

Kyle Lamb: Hey, thanks for having me, man. I'm excited. This is awesome.

Travis Bader: So am I. I've been really looking forward to this one.

You know, this last year-end reflection that you just stepped right up to the plate and said, "Yep, send me in. I'm good to go," there is a number of people who really shied away from that challenge, and you knocked it out of the park, and I really wanna thank you for that.

Kyle Lamb: Well, good. Yeah, for sure. I, I just... I don't know.

You know, I, our first... Well, the first time we talked, I just hit it off with you, and there was actually some really interesting things that happened immediately after the podcast I did with you. Like- Really?

Travis Bader: Like- ...

Kyle Lamb: the same day.

Travis Bader: What happened?

Kyle Lamb: You remember one of the [00:03:00] conversations we had was what if you had six months to live?

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm.

Kyle Lamb: So was that impactful to you?

Travis Bader: Yes.

Kyle Lamb: Well, that's super impactful to me, and it's changed the way that I... It, honestly, it just changed the way that I go about my daily, daily life because once, you know, and if people wanna know the story, they can go back and they can listen to that podcast about it.

But bottom line is my brother-in-law was given six months to live, and I was sitting here talking with my wife, and I said, "Man, what would you do if you were given six months to live?" And she goes, "Well, I'm doing it right now." And I-

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm ...

Kyle Lamb: and I, as I told you, I wasn't. So When we did our podcast, s- I, I had had some medical issues, and the d- the day that we finished your podcast, I, I had to drive into town to pick up a gun or something.

Like I was by myself in my truck, and I'm driving back, and the doctor's office calls me, and it's a nurse, and [00:04:00] she says, "Um, hey, Mr. Lamb, just wanted to let you know, uh, after your appointment when you came in on Sunday, uh, we just wanna let you know you got bladder cancer." And I'm like- What? ... "Bladder cancer?"

I mean, that's no joke. No. Well, and I'm gonna cut to the chase real quick. I don't have bladder cancer.

Travis Bader: Good, good, good. Thank

Kyle Lamb: you. But it, what it made me do, I had just told you that I'm living as though I've got six months left to live. And when I got that news, it was kinda crazy because it didn't... Man, it just like it didn't, it, it, I was like...

Well, first thing I said, I I said, "All right, Lord, you, yeah I opened my big nou- mouth. I guess I get to back it up right here, you know?" Um, within, within a day, day and a half, we had found out I was good to go. I, I went in and-

Travis Bader: Mm ...

Kyle Lamb: gave another urine sample, and you know, and I ended up having to go and do some other doctor checkups, but bottom line was I was good to go.

Well, then as soon as- Mm ... I find out I'm good to go, my wife gets, [00:05:00] uh, an accildent- accidental finding where she's on a... Sorry, let me silence my phone here just to make sure. She gets this accidental finding where they, they did a, a scan of her neck area, and it went down farther, and they said she had a lump on one of her lungs, and I'm like, now- Mm

I will tell you this, that devastated me. And-

Travis Bader: Right ...

Kyle Lamb: just like with me, within a week for her she was able to get back in, and they were able to do more tests, and they're like, "Okay, it's small. It's translucent. You're good to go, but you gotta come in every six months and get a scan." And, and she's been clean ever since then.

So anyway, that's what happened after our last visit. Man. And it, man, it, but it, it, it just, to me it kind of solidified it, it... I guess what it did was it took me a step further, where I said, if I only had six months to [00:06:00] live, what would I do? What if your wife only had six months to live? That's a completely- That's-

different

Travis Bader: conversation.

Kyle Lamb: Oh, my goodness, dude. It's, it's devastating. Like, I, I was- Yeah ... oh, my goodness. I mean, myself, I'm, like, I, I hope I'm a little value-added to my family, but my wife is all the value added to my family, my, to my grandkids, my kids, everybody that's around her. I mean, just awesome gal. And anyway, so I...

That, that, uh, it's made me, it's, it's, it's made both of us kinda change the way we are, not just with ourselves, but how we are together. So-

Travis Bader: How did that hit? Like, when you first heard about yourself, uh, like I, you know, I, I have a feeling of how it would fit me, and I've had some things where there's, you know, like, some possible forward-looking issues.

Never bladder cancer. [00:07:00] I, I think I have a feeling of how that would hit me. How did that hit you when it, uh, when you heard that?

Kyle Lamb: Well, it, it, when I heard that, the very first thing I thought of was you. And I said, I just had this conversation, and I thought of you and what I'd said on your podcast, and then I said, "All right, God, let me finish.

Let me, let me do this the way that I've said I'm gonna do it."

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: And then that was it. I mean, it, it, it wasn't... There was no crying or gnashing of teeth or anything like that. When I got home to my wife, I told her, I said, "I just got this call. Here's the deal." And she goes, she said, "Okay, we're just gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna work through this.

Let's get you scheduled so you can go back in and, and get to the bottom of this." And she was super solid, too. Mm. When we thought she had cancer, it was, we, neither one of us was real solid. Mm. And I think that, um- [00:08:00] Man, it scared the crap out of me. So anyway, I just wanted to share that with you. It, it, it was a, a growing experience.

Um- Yes ... or maybe it's a th- I don't wanna say thought-provoking, because it wasn't thought-provoking. It actually changed the way I look at life with my wife, and I think that's a positive thing if we can... You know, what, what, what we don't wanna have happen is your wife dies and you, and then you've gotta, then you start thinking about her.

It's like- Right ... she's alive right now. Let's, let's think about her day to day and, and be with her and, you know, and-

Travis Bader: What a gift that is.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah. And, and it's a, a valuable gift. It's the most important gift I've ever been given other than, than my faith. And it's, uh... Yeah. So anyway, I wanted to bring that up.

What? I didn't mean to sidetrack you on that. No. Hey, there- But it, it, it, I've thought about you [00:09:00] a bunch, because I've told people that story a whole bunch and I've said, "I was on, I was on this podcast with this bro from Canada, and we had this discussion, and then this happened." And I was like, "Now you gotta put your money where your mouth is."

And You know, thank goodness it, that wasn't, it didn't- Right ... play out the way that the, the nurse, and she should have never called me and told me that on the phone in the first place, but-

Travis Bader: No ... you know,

Kyle Lamb: whatever.

Travis Bader: No. I mean, you think there's a different way to do that.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah.

Travis Bader: But, you know, I, it, it's interesting when you contemplate your own mortality.

It's one thing to think about it, and we all know we're going there, and it's another thing for it to, for that light switch to click and everything to become real, and ha- have that timeframe.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah.

Travis Bader: And then a completely other thing when it's somebody you care about and it's not you. Because for me- Yeah ... I can compartmentalize that.

I've, um, I remember years ago, a [00:10:00] fellow came in, did some training with us, and really nice guy, hit it off, and he ended up, uh, with throat cancer. He said, "Trav, can you help me out? I want my son to come through and do some training, and I want him to, like, go skydiving and do..." Like, he- he's never done the Army thing, and I wanna give him the closest experience to that, 'cause I don't think he's really cut, and I'm not gonna be around here much longer.

Can you, can you help with the firearms side? "Because I guess he, he felt like these different experiences would have an indelible impression on his son. And it was... He, he was a, um, a very well-spoken individual who, uh, worked for a, um, I think it was a bank here downtown. And anyways, when he passed, he, he left me a, uh, a Glock and, um, and a video, and this video was him talking about the process of, of what he was going through.

And he says, "You know, there was laughter in our household the day I found out that I had throat cancer. There was [00:11:00] laughter and, I mean, yeah, we're, there's solemn times and, and the rest, but this isn't, this isn't the heavy thing that, uh..." And he, he carried it very well and he brought everyone along with him, those who loved him, and they were there in the, uh, in the video.

And I feel that's how I would like to th- think I would respond. Now, if it's my wife, on the other hand, I haven't role-played that one in the head. And I haven't... I mean, that's a completely different situation.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, but I think that, you know, what it changes is the time that you have together is valuable, every minute of time you have together.

And if it's, you know, the first thing I do when I get up in the morning is give my wife a kiss good morning, and the last thing I do before I go to bed is give her a kiss good night.

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: You know, that's, you know, that's just a small thing, but it's not just, I'm not just doing that. Mm. It's, it's meant. Like, we are, you know, there's-

Travis Bader: You feel it.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, yeah. You know, and I think [00:12:00] that's, um, we all get busy, but we have to remember, you know, what's really important, and it's not a lot of, you know, it's not- It ain't money

Travis Bader: Sure as hell isn't, is it?

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, it's not, you know, how many big animals you killed or anything like that. It's time. Yeah. Like, you know, what, what, uh What can you give your loved ones?

You can give them time. My- that's my wife's word, is time.

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: That's the most important thing to her, is time. I like that. Because she wants time with me, time with my grandkids, time with our daughter and our son, and, you know, their families and... Yeah, I don't know. I guess as we go, we, you know, we mature and we, maybe we think about things a little bit differently.

Um, that doesn't mean I don't wanna go hunting. That doesn't mean that I don't wanna, you know, go do crazy stuff. I do a lot of fun, crazy stuff still. Mm-hmm.

Travis Bader: But

Kyle Lamb: [00:13:00] it's... There's gotta be that time aspect where you're, you're giving your loved ones enough time, you know?

Travis Bader: It's the quality of the time. It's s- sitting on the couch for a long time is a very different experience than spending quality time with loved ones- Yeah

over a short period of time. I... And really, time's the only thing... I'm, I'm with Melinda on that one. Time's the only thing that gives our life value, really- Yeah ... when it comes down to it. Yeah. If time was infinite, it'd be like infinite money. Where's the value in it?

Kyle Lamb: Yeah.

Travis Bader: Um, Nims Dai. Have you heard that name?

Nims Dai.

The mountaineer. So this really crazy mountaineer who was, uh, Gurkha forces. He, he got on with a British SBS, uh, did his time there, uh, decided he's gotta get back out in the mountains again, and he... They did a Netflix show about him, and he did, uh, I think they call it 14 Peaks. He did the [00:14:00] 14 highest peaks over 8,000 feet, and uh, he did it in six months and six days.

Prior to that, it was something like eight years it took somebody to do those 14 peaks.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah.

Travis Bader: So, um, I've reached out to him in the past, back and forth with his media team, and, uh, it was interesting. Recently, about, um... It, it was about the time that, uh, we were recording that, the last episode there that we did for the year-end ref- reflection, and you put your...

And maybe it was on my mind, and uh, uh, the year-end reflection was when everything else fades, uh, what do you want to be remembered for? And with the, the media team reached out to me and said, "Okay, lookit. We, we like what we're seeing. We like what's going on here, but like what, what would a podcast with you look like?"

And I said, "Really, what I wanna do is I wanna talk about purpose after achievement." I said he's done those 14 peaks. He did, did it with [00:15:00] oxygen. He went and did it all over again without oxygen, and then he was going for, they call it his Triple Crown. And a couple days ago, he died in an avalanche with, uh, there was 10 of them on the slopes there, and he was, it was on Broad Peak- Apparently it was a last-minute decision to go and do this mountain and go up there.

And, uh, but again, you know, gets you questioning your own mortality and what is it you're living for. 'Cause some people... Like, I wanted to have that conversation with him. Was it rinse and repeat? Was it mountain, mountain, mountain again and okay, we've done it? 'Cause it's, it's easy when you're in the middle of it.

What's your purpose? What are you living for? And you can point at the top of that mountain. Okay, you've done that mountain. Now what? Who are you? So I, I've done a little bit of thinking. I don't have the answer f- really for myself aside from, uh, depth of connection, uh, in a foundation of truth, uh, circumscribed by responsibility because you can't just [00:16:00] blindly w- blindly look for depth of connection without truth.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah.

Travis Bader: And you go too far in there, I mean, you have responsibilities that, that should be, they're keeping you inbound. I- that's, that's the best I've been able to kinda come up with what it is that really drives me

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, and I think honestly for me it changes daily.

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: So I have a, I have a, a, a schedule that I try to follow.

So my wife and I get up between 4:00 and 5:00 in the morning, somewhere in there usually. We're early risers. Mm-hmm. We... She goes in the office and starts prepping stuff so that orders get out the door that day. And first thing I do every day is I let the dogs out, make my coffee, and then I, I try to read the Bible the first thing, and then we get, we get going.

But then from that point on- Mm ... it's like what's your mission? You know, like, what's the mission for that day? And I think for me that's, that's what's helped me is [00:17:00] I have a buddy that says, you know, he's, he says that, uh, every day is a Saturday, but he also s- he also always has something that he's working on.

Every day when he gets up he has something like, "This is what I'm gonna do today." It's not- Mm ... "Oh, let's get up and just see what happens." There's no just get up and see what happens for him. And for my wife there's no get up and see what happens. She has a plan, which means I have a plan because we, we try to, you know, make that work together.

And I might be like, "Okay, I'm going shooting tomorrow." Roger that. So we'll get up- Mm ... we'll go for a walk, we'll lift weights, and then I'll load up, drive to the range, shoot long range or whatever, you know. So- Yep ... I think every day to me it kind of changes, you know, just changes what, what that mission happens to be.

And then while you're doing that, once again, you know, give that time to your loved ones. And then if something happens and you have to throw a... Like, I come back from hunting. Last year I was up in Wyoming for 10 or 12 days, killed a really [00:18:00] good bull, come home, and she's like, "Ah, w- I wish you wouldn't go on the next hunt to Wisconsin.

Just you've been gone a lot. Just-

Travis Bader: Mm ...

Kyle Lamb: don't go." Yeah. And I'm like, "Roger that." So I didn't go because I, I, I'd had a great hunt, hung out with my buddy for those, that amount of time. We both killed g- really good bulls, and that was, that was it, you know?

Travis Bader: I, I believe in those, you know, when someone says, "Oh, you know, I kind of wish you'd stay back."

Yeah, no problem, I'll stay back. I- i- i- it's such a simple decision to make, and I don't know, what are the, the b- wise belief in divine providence, the, uh-

Kyle Lamb: Yeah ...

Travis Bader: or whatever that saying is, the, um, but just believing, you know, the universe unfolds as it should. And the second... And I, I try to just apply that as I'm, I'm driving and I don't make that light and, you know, younger me would be like, "Ah, I can make it, I'm gonna take it," or I'd be, uh, fast on the next one.

Well, maybe I didn't make that light because at the [00:19:00] next one I was gonna get cut off and there'd be an accident. Maybe someone's saying don't go on that trip because there's something a little bit more. Like, I don't wanna read into everything, but I'll just accept it as it comes, and this is what's, uh, I, I found, um- I found that to be a, a way for myself to live anyways

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, and I don't read into it either.

I just, I just go with the flow there, and- Hmm ... I'm a pretty, I, I say I'm pretty even-keeled guy, but I get, I get spun up, I get spun up- ... just like, just like everybody else does. Yeah,

Travis Bader: yeah.

Kyle Lamb: But, you know, it's, it's... I've been, I've been lucky enough that I've been able to do pretty much everything I've wanted to do in my life, so it's, it, it shouldn't hurt my feelings to do what somebody else wants me to do a little bit.

Because once I do that- Hmm ... I enjoy it anyway. It's not like, you know, if I go do something that I hadn't planned, I'm not gonna enjoy it, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. We had a, we had a really interesting time last year. Our son was supposed to get married, and then that fell apart. Well, they already were gonna go down...

Our daughter bought us a [00:20:00] trip to Mexico for the whole family, and we were gonna go down to this all-inclusive thing. And so we go down there, and- My son's upset 'cause now he's not getting married, and that was supposed to be the trip where they were gonna check it out and then they're gonna go back in the, later in the year and get married, actually during- Mm

uh, Valentine's Day. And it was just mayhem, total mayhem. So we come back from that and my wife said, "Uh, we actually didn't turn our tickets in for the date in February. Everybody else got their money back, but we're gonna lose our money-

Travis Bader: Mm ...

Kyle Lamb: for this wedding in Mexico." And I was like, "Well, let's go."

Travis Bader: You got it.

Kyle Lamb: So we went right back to the exact same place where we were there with the whole family, and we had an absolute blast because it was just- Mm ... my wife and I. Now we had fun with our grandkids when we were there, but they were busy 'cause we had some other relatives that showed up, and they were doing little kid stuff.

And, you know, I kinda get [00:21:00] pushed to the side because my wife's with my daughter and I'm over there- Mm-hmm ... you know, just... I'm not a big beach guy in the first place, but man, when I went with my wife, we just had a blast, and it was just the two of us and we could, we could just be on our own schedule, you know?

So you just never know, man. Stuff happens and it's, it's fun when you, you just get, get involved with it.

Travis Bader: You just go with it. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I was in, I was in Mexico when they had that, um, where was it, Vallarta, when they, uh, took over the city and when I was flying back, we were in Huatulco in, um- Yeah

Oaxaca. I got, first time ever getting stung by a scorpion, so that was a new one on me. That was kinda a neat one. That was kind of interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Wake up in the middle of the night and there was, uh, uh, something on my chest and I, uh, brush it off. And, uh, all of a sudden as I'm brushing it off, it's, I feel a zap on my chest, and then I, a zap on my finger as I'm trying to roll it off, and it's kinda hard.

And anyways, I, it was a, uh, just a bark scorpion. And um, but my wife [00:22:00] and I brushed it off and it's stuck up in the netting, and my wife's like, "What is it? What is it?" "Don't, don't worry," right? 'Cause, you know, I some- sometimes I'll- ... yell and fight in my sleep. And, um, uh, I was like, "No, no, no, I think it was, uh, I don't know, I think it was a bee or something."

I didn't wanna get her- Yeah, yeah ... get her concerned about... But yeah- Yeah ... that was, it was kind of a, uh, it was an interesting trip and then, uh, knew other people in the, uh, Vallarta area that were having to swim off of boats 'cause they're on little, uh, sightseeing things and swim to the beach 'cause the- Yeah

docks were all shut down. So when the... Yeah, where, where in Mexico were you?

Kyle Lamb: Uh, outside of Cancun.

Travis Bader: Mm. So you've

Kyle Lamb: got- So it's totally, it's, it's to- totally a tourist trap, but it's, it's, you know, it's really nice. The food's good. The... We did some touring the first time we went over there, and then this time we just, the second trip we just had a blast.

We didn't do, we never left the compound. We just- ... stayed there and- Sunbathed ... just relaxed and did all that. [00:23:00] Yep.

Travis Bader: Nice. So I'm holding in my hands this book. I haven't been able to read the entire thing. I've read through in different passages as I go through, and then I'll go through and do a full sweep.

But, uh, it's a pretty cool book. It's called The Next Mission. You were talking about it on the la- last podcast, saying that you're basically getting close to wrapping up, and now it's out. I think it was June 6 when it went out. Um, it's a pretty fricking cool book, and it's, um, it's written in a very easy, digestible way.

It's got, uh, I like the graphics in it. I think that was your son-in-law who, uh- Yeah, yeah ... wrote the graphics. Having pictures in the book is always helpful for me. And, uh, and, uh, just the way that it's, uh, put forward. Can you, um, can you tell me a bit about this book?

Kyle Lamb: Well, so the, the way that it came about was we, I was, uh, I'd never read the Bible from cover to cover.

Mm. And I was like, I just was like, "I need to read the Bi- like, [00:24:00] read the entire Bible." Mm. So I started reading the Bible, and one day I was telling somebody else a story about Ehud, the left-handed assassin, which there's a chapter in there about him.

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm.

Kyle Lamb: And, and at the time I didn't, like, I hadn't really dug into it that far, but I was telling this story about this guy.

He was- He killed this guy, King Eglon, and he stuck this dagger in him, and, and, and the guy was so fat that the dagger, like, sucked up inside of him, and then he rolled out of there. And I mean, it's just a great story, and I'm telling it, and my wife goes, "You need to write that down."

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: And I was like, "Write it down?"

She goes, "Well, it's a great story. You should write that down." And then I was like, "Ah, okay," 'cause I like to write, so I started writing the story down, and then I realized I didn't know how he made that dagger because I make knives and I didn't know how to make, I didn't know how to make, um, bronze.

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: So I started researching, like, how, how would a dude have made bronze back in the day?

Well, then I, I put that in the book. I put that in the story, you know, how, [00:25:00] how he was making bronze with this much copper and this much, um, um-

Travis Bader: Tin and antimony, or...?

Kyle Lamb: Uh, nickel. Nickel? Okay. Or no. No, tin, tin, tin. Tin? Yeah. So copper and tin. And then as I got farther down, now this is, like, as we're going through the final throes of this book, I'm doing more and more research.

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: And I was like, "Where did he get, where'd they get the tin?" And then I find out that the tin came from England. So this is, like, a crazy- Huh. You know, and that's in the book. I put that in there. Um- Yeah ... we know that now because we can actually trace the tin, you know, to what, where it came from in the world by looking at the, the structure of that tin.

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: Um, so then I thought, "Well, i- is that written anywhere else in history?" And it actually is. Herodotus, his histories, he talks about the tin that came from England. It wasn't England, of course, at that time. Mm-hmm. You know, this is way back when, but so that's [00:26:00] how, that's kinda how it started. And then I started saying, "Okay, well, what stories do I wanna tell?"

Obviously, I want a, I want a bunch of Old Testament stuff in there, 'cause that's where all the- Yeah ... the smiting took place. Fire and brimstone. Yeah, there's a lot of death and destruction in the Old Testament. So there's a lot of Old Testament stuff in here, but then there's also New Testament, and that's- You know, when, when there's a chapter called, uh, uh, Ranger Buddy, and it's talks about the Apostle Paul and the guys- Hmm

that traveled with him, and the, the whippings they took, the lickings they took from the lictors, which is a guy that w- that they called him a lictor, the guy that beat him with the, with the sticks. You know, and there's times he could have stopped those beatings, but he didn't because his- Two words. Yeah, he could've said, "I'm Roman."

Travis Bader: Yeah. He

Kyle Lamb: said, "I'm Roman." They would've had to stop beating him, and he didn't. He, he, he stayed there with his buddy, 'cause his buddy couldn't do that. Hmm. And I was like, "Man, that's a great story." So what I did with that one, and I'm, I'm, [00:27:00] I'm going deep, kind of deep into this, but the s- the story about Paul, um, I put them in Rome, and you haven't read the story on Paul yet, have you?

Travis Bader: I, well, I, I did read the Bible a long time ago. And when I say read- No,

Kyle Lamb: no, I mean in the, in, in this

Travis Bader: book ... but, but, but not in your book. No, not in

Kyle Lamb: yours. Okay. So towards the end of the book, there's the, the, um, ranger story there. So it's called Ranger Buddy, and he's sitting at a table. It starts out hi- he's sitting at a table, and he's chained to a Roman soldier because that's how he lived when he was, when he was in Rome, at least the first time.

Mm-hmm. The second time we, you know, we believe he was executed on his second trip to Rome there. Um, but I, I, I wrote that, like, what would a dude like Paul, who's traveled and done all this stuff, like, what would he say to that soldier? And I made him have that conversation. Hmm. And it, and it wasn't a, [00:28:00] a w- it wasn't a conversation of disrespect either way.

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm.

Kyle Lamb: Because Paul right away started talking to him about, "Oh, so where'd you serve?" And then they find out that, you know, not only did he serve with Corbulo, Corbulo was a famous general who Nero, uh, told him to kill himself to prove that he was, that he was true to Nero, so he had- Sure ... to commit suicide, which was just completely ridiculous, 'cause he was a great- Right

commander. But this guy, I made him the, I for- I forget how I put it in there, but it was a cousin of the, the guy that traveled with Paul on that, sh- that trip on the ship, where they had the shipwreck, and he got, you know, bit by a viper and all this stuff.

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm.

Kyle Lamb: And, and also that, that guy converted to, uh, Christianity.

So it's a, it's a, it, it, it was fun to put, you know, like they, they were having this conversation, a soldier in the [00:29:00] Roman army and a soldier in God's army, and they're having this conversation. And other people are trying to, like, "Hey, we gotta write, we gotta finish this book today." And he's like, "Hey, I'm talking to this soldier.

Just relax- Yeah ... man." And then he looks at him and says, "Put on the armor of God," and he uses that soldier to pick those verses that he wrote in the Bible. You know, and, and, you know, did this ever happen? I believe something like that did happen, because he was in Rome when he wrote that book, and he would've- Hmm

been looking at Roman soldiers. You know, it's just like, uh, are you familiar with Josephus? People are people. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Josephus, when, uh, Flavius Josephus, who was a, a, a Jewish historian, he was looking at Romans, and he was in Jerusalem. And he said, "Their drills were like bloodless battles, and their battles like bloody drills."

Yeah.

And when you, so when you hear that as a soldier- It's the same thing that you

Travis Bader: say now.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, well, and, and, and- Train hard, fight easy. Yeah. Train easy, fight hard or

Travis Bader: die.

Kyle Lamb: So, so, right, so that's, th- that tells me that he literally was watching them train and then watching them fight, and [00:30:00] he, he, they were doing it the way we should be doing it, not the way- Hmm

that some folks do it. And, uh, and I th- and I believe that, you know... Anyway, so that, that's how that came about. So as I wrote it, then I also wanted to put kind of my two cents at the end of every chapter, so there's a lesson learned, and then there's a battlefield reflection.

Travis Bader: Hmm.

Kyle Lamb: Uh, we just finished- uh, recording the audiobook.

It'll be out in another month or so. Um, I r- I read part of the book. I read the parts that didn't need accents and- ... women's voices and stuff like that. Sure. We had another guy, uh, Zach Hoffman, who's kind of a funny dude, 'cause he's, he's a bodybuilder, but he does voice stuff, and he does acting, and he's just as big as a house, just jacked- Yeah?

dude. And he, he read the book, and he did... When I was in the studio, they were giving me sections of the book that he was reading, and then I would follow it up, and I would start reading, you know, when his- Hmm ... section ended there. [00:31:00] Man, some of... Oh, it was just- It was awesome. He did a really good job. He's a pretty talented guy,

Travis Bader: huh?

Yeah.

Kyle Lamb: Oh, yeah, super talented. We, uh, we had several guys that we chose from, and, and everybody that listened to it, everybody chose him, so it was, it was kind of a no-brainer. The other thing that we did on this book, it's Kyle and Melinda Lamb. It's both of us in there. I saw that. Um, that was my decision. She didn't particularly care for that, but I was like, y- she had so much to do with this book and making me better understand.

You know, like, if you say, um, we're gonna go fight, and God was with us. Right. Well, that's not the right to say that. You shouldn't say God was with us. You should say we were with God.

Travis Bader: Ah.

Kyle Lamb: You know, so just a little twist on those words makes it, makes it correct, you know? Uh-huh. 'Cause we're not ... It's not o- We're, we're on God's mission.

We're not on our mission. We're on God's mission, so it's... I- if [00:32:00] that makes sense. And once I, once I started looking at things differently like that from that different perspective, um- I don't know. It's just in, in writing fiction, I've, I've, I wrote another fiction book that hasn't been released yet, and I don't know if it ever will be-

'cause my wife said it's got too much killing in it. But- Okay ... um, there's a lot of killing in this book as well. But, uh, yeah. Anyway, that's, that's how that came about, and then, um, I asked a few guys to, to write little pieces here to, you know, talk about the book, and I was very happy that Victor Marks wrote the, the forward to Battle there.

Mm-hmm. He actually won the, the, uh, Republican nomination to, for governor of Colorado, so he'll be going up against the left there in, in Colorado- Hmm ... coming up. Nice So, uh, I'm actually going out to do a podcast with him here in, uh, a couple weeks, and then I'm gonna speak at his rally while I'm out there, so that's [00:33:00] kind of a nerve-wracking thing.

Very cool. I've never s- I've never spoke at a, at a political rally, but there we go.

Travis Bader: Oh, I'm, I'm sure it'll be well received. So is that your next micro-mission? Is that, uh, in two weeks out? Like, what is... Now that this, your The Next Mission is out, what's the next mission?

Kyle Lamb: Um, I've actually got another couple books that I'm working on, and I don't know what book will actually make, ever see the light of day, but I've got a, a...

And I'm not even gonna tell you about them yet because they're so- Sure ... I've written one, I've, I've written about 10 chapters of it already, and when I went, when I go back and I read it, I'm like, "Oh, this sucks. I gotta, like, just flush this entire chapter and do something different." But it- Hmm ... even if I write a chapter that I'm gonna throw away, it, it gives me, it, it makes me content to do that.

I do wanna try to get the fiction. I'm trying to convince my wife that the fiction should go out the door, but, um, so I'm working- Hmm ... on that. But then the other thing we're working on is, um, I've got several, [00:34:00] several classes that are upcoming. We just got back from Texas. I spoke down there Saturday. The weekend before that we were at Cheyenne Frontier Days at the rodeo.

Um, this next week I'll speak for one of our organizations here, a government organization in Tennessee. Uh, then I head to, uh, Pennsylvania to teach a class, and that kinda takes us into September, which is elk season.

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm.

Kyle Lamb: Uh, so I've been shooting my b- I actually literally today was the first day I've shot my compound in a long time.

I've been shooting my recurve, but I haven't been shooting my compound. Mm. So I pulled it out and just, I'm like, "Oh, man, I'm I gotta, I gotta get my archery muscles- ... back on here," you know? And so, uh, getting ready for that hunt in Wyoming, and then the cool thing is I'm gonna take my grandson up to Wisconsin this year to do a, a, a youth hunt, so that's gonna be fun.

He's, he's killed some deer on our place here. He's 12. He's killed a couple [00:35:00] deer here, but we're gonna try to get him on a big buck up there in Wisconsin. Very cool. So that's kind of the next- Are

Travis Bader: you still, uh, are you still doing the bow fishing?

Kyle Lamb: Yeah. I, I haven't bow fished in a while. Um- I need to, I just, I need to do more of that.

I've been fishing for smallmouth quite a bit. Not, obviously not bow fishing for them. But, uh, I went up to, to your neck of the woods... Actually, not your neck of the woods, but I went up to Canada for a couple weeks and spent- Hmm ... 10 days up in there in the, the Quetico Wilderness with- Okay ... our canoe on our back.

And, and, um, some of my military buddies and one of my hunting buddies, he came as well, and we caught... This is the first time I ever caught all five species in that area, 'cause I'd never caught a lake trout. Hmm. This year I actually caught a lake trout. Of course, we always catch walleye and largemouth- Hmm

smallmouth and, and, um, and pike. We catch pike there as well. But, uh, that was... I always love going up there doing that. But I, I g- I need to get back out, [00:36:00] excuse me, bow fishing, 'cause, oh, it's just so fun.

Travis Bader: How do you juggle this all? Because I, I know and I, I get the sense that our personalities in some respects are similar, where we, we're go, go, go.

We like to do things, and lots of ideas and lots of interests. And I find, like my knife making, I've kind of put that on hold for a little bit. I started developing some, uh, some things on... I got into AI and, and building, uh, programs, and I'm building another one out at the moment, but I built it off the side of my desk while I was, uh, working on another project.

I gotta imagine that you've got a lot of interests. Like, how do you juggle the hunting, the podcasting, the speaking, the writing, the knife making, the, all of the, the canoeing? Like, do you find that some things start to suffer over time?

Kyle Lamb: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, definitely they suffer, but I just don't know any other way to do it.

Hmm. I can't... I d- I have the [00:37:00] same attention span as a squirrel. So I like to do stuff, but then when I'm done with that, I move on to the next thing, and then I'll circle back- Right ... to that other thing when I, when I'm ready to go. Now, one thing my wife has been on me about is, like, to enjoy that journey a little bit more of, if I'm gonna go fishing, then start prepping my gear a month out, and then, you know, keep working on it and refine it until, okay, now I'm gonna deploy on that fishing trip, and I'm gonna have a good time.

And I'm... And, and I do good. Like, when I'm fishing, I'm, I'm in the moment. I'm fishing. I'm not thinking about- Okay ... I don't... Like, I might think about a poem I wanna write or whatever. I, I write some poetry, so I... That's kinda- Yeah ... some goofball stuff. But it's, that's fun, and I might be going over that in my head a little bit, but I'm not thinking about- I don't know.

I just, I try to stay in the moment when I'm doing it. Um, I've been shooting a lot of long range here. I've been shooting the NRL Hunter matches. Hmm. That's been a lot of fun because it takes me way out of my comfort zone. I had a really, really good y- year this year. [00:38:00] I didn't quite make my goal. I was... My goal, I'd shot all factory the last couple years.

This year I decided I would shoot every category and try to get on the podium in every category. Hmm. Well, I podium-ed in open heavy, open light, and teams, but I did not podium with factory. I only shot one factory match. I didn't make it- Whoa ... on the podium. And I'd, I'm gonna try it again this coming year.

Travis Bader: Good for you.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah. So it's- That's a- You know, I didn't... There's a, there's a, a Rusty Elmer Award if you win every category.

Travis Bader: Hmm.

Kyle Lamb: I didn't, I didn't go for that. I went for podium. So if I'm top three- Right ... then I'm, I w- I consider that, for me, you know, close enough. Um, at least- Good for you ... initial, you know, that's what I'm trying to do.

So that's been a really good experience for me because it's, it's, it's difficult. I'm uncomfortable, uh, shooting a long gun like that. I, I shouldn't say I'm uncomfortable. It's just calling winds is a, is a, a [00:39:00] black, black art. Oh, it's voodoo. Yeah. Yeah. It's right out of it. And it's, but it's fun. It's just so fun.

And I, I've got people that, you know, are, are good to talk to me about this or that. I actually shot a team match with my buddy Aaron Martin. We had a blast. We ended up, uh, third in teams at that match. Our very first, or my first team match. He'd shot it before. But yeah. Hmm. I, I just think that I, I'm always- free copping is what we call the military.

Free copping? Frequency hopping radios, they would- Oh, yes, yes ... you know, jump from frequency to frequency. That's how they stayed secure. I do the same thing. Mm-hmm. Um, I'm always doing something different. The only, the only issue I have with my MO there is that sometimes I leave a mess. Yes. Like I'll go teach a class, and I'll come home, and I'll just put my stuff in a pile, and then I'll grab my stuff for the next thing I gotta do and get it ready.

Mm. And then, you know, a month later I'm like, "Ugh, my stuff is still sitting in this pile." Mm-hmm. I need to... You know, my clothes all [00:40:00] get washed, and I clean up my gear if I need to if it's wet or muddy or whatever, but-

Travis Bader: Sure ...

Kyle Lamb: it may not get all tucked away the way it's supposed to be. Um, I'm working on that. I think there's a

Travis Bader: term for that.

I think there's a term for that. I, uh, I've heard a few of them. I heard if you do that with your clothing, like you just, it's all packed up, but it's over to the side, or you have another section over... They call them floordrobes. I've heard those. Yeah,

Kyle Lamb: yeah. Well, when I was in the Army they called it the Kyle pile.

The Kyle pile. And they'd come in, and I'd have this pile there, and I'd be just digging through it. Oh yeah, here it is, and let's go, you know? And then, but I had all my guns, all my gun stuff is organized. Like if you said- Square it away ... get in your, yeah, get in your gun bag and give me this. Boom, I'd have it like it's right here.

Mm-hmm. What about this wrench? It's right here. Mm-hmm. What about this magazine or this... You know, I know where all that stuff is at, but it's, uh... You know, you get ready to go, like ready to go fishing, how much fishing gear do you bring with you? Yeah. Man, I brought way too much stuff. That's what you really need.

Yeah. Right? You really don't need a lot. I ended up, this year I went with just a little chest pack. I had extra [00:41:00] stuff in my bag, but I really enjoyed having just that little chest pack because- Mm ... it was so simple. And we got ready to portage, I could just- throw my other bag on my back and go, you know, 'cause I had everything there Yeah So yeah, it was, it's, yeah, I don't know how we handle it.

I haven't figured out how to handle it perfectly- Knowing- ... but I'm working

Travis Bader: on that ... knowing where all your kit is at a, at a moment's notice, but still unable to find the ketchup in the fridge. I don't know. It's it seems to be the curse.

Kyle Lamb: My wife always says the problem I've got is if I can't find it, I just buy a new one.

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm.

Kyle Lamb: And, uh, that's, you know, that's sometimes, sometimes true.

Travis Bader: Yeah, and th- but then you find you've got clutter everywhere. You've got too many things kicking around. It's, uh- Yeah ... the whole what you own owns you sort of thing that, uh-

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, and I'm doing, I'm actually working on that a little bit. A- when, and we had a, the people watching this don't know this, but I had to upgrade my setup on my computer before I could actually get on to [00:42:00] talk with you here.

So my wife did that for me on my computer, and now my desk is all organized, 'cause as she was doing it- Ah, yeah ... she couldn't, she couldn't look at my desk the way I had it, and she got sh- everything is, like, all organized right now. Right down my desk, everything's perfect and- ... so.

Travis Bader: Ah, she's a good lady. Yeah.

I, uh, it, it's sort of a, uh, an anomaly. It's a, um, a, a juxtaposition. I create a mess all around me, and I operate best in a clean, tidy area. So I, I, I don't know. Yeah. At, at some point it just gets overwhelming, and it's like I th- okay, I either just find another room, and I, this is where I'm gonna have to operate out of, or I'm gonna have to s- start tidying this up.

And, and nothing's garbage. Everything's good, decent stuff, and it's all organized and, but- Yeah ... just everywhere.

Kyle Lamb: My wife told me, she goes, "Why do you enjoy hunting so much?" And I said, "I just like it. I'm out there, and it's, life is simple." And she goes, "Well, why don't you make your life simple when you're at home?"

Travis Bader: [00:43:00] Mm.

Kyle Lamb: She's like, "You got all this, like, you live out of your backpack for two weeks, and you love it."

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. "

Kyle Lamb: Why don't you just do the same when you're at home? Don't live out of a backpack, but, like, can you get... Like, you've got, you know, whatever. I've got too much stuff."

Travis Bader: You accum- do you accumulate?

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, I definitely accumulate.

Okay. And, and, and part of it is, it, I'm in the firearms industry obviously. Sure. So I have a lot of gun stuff. Yeah. And I get sent a lot of gun stuff. Even if I don't ask for stuff, a lot of times I get it. Mm. Um, and then what I try to do is if it's stuff I'm not gonna use, I try to give it away to somebody.

But it takes me- Mm ... a while, like, okay, I, I, I accumulate it. I'll give you a, a, a real quick story. I, I, I called my buddy up and I said, "I got a big old pile of stuff outside of my garage. Would you come get it?" I said, "But if you come to get it, you gotta take everything."

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. "

Kyle Lamb: You can't just come and sort through it.

You gotta take [00:44:00] everything." He's like, "Roger that." So him and his son, they, um, they show up, and, uh- He starts going through this pile and he calls me on the phone and he says, "Hey, man, I just... You, you screwed up. There's a... You left a gun laying underneath that pile."

Travis Bader: I said everything. And

Kyle Lamb: I said, "Dude, I said everything."

I said, "You promised me you would take everything." He's like, "Are you serious?" And I'm like, "Yeah, man." "'Cause that's a gun I'm never ever gonna use ever again." Mm-hmm. "And you're, you're the recipient of that gun." And here's the other thing, half the stuff in that pile I didn't even pay for because, you know, whether it's clothing or, um, MOLLE gear, guns, whatever, you know.

And I'm not saying I'm not thankful for that because- Sure ... in different phases I've needed this to, to, to use for my classes or that or whatever. But, uh, yeah, we, we laughed pretty hard about that one, but, uh...

Travis Bader: Yeah. Yeah, I, I, [00:45:00] I would look at gun things as a, um, as an investment. I can always sell them later, right?

I, I can, I can accumulate and they're only gonna make me money later on, and, uh, it doesn't always work that way. And it does get to be overwhelming, so I started look- saying, well, I wanna, I want my gun collection. I'll start getting rid of the stuff that I don't really use, and I wanna have something that's...

I normally wouldn't buy for myself, something a little fancier, and I can, I can put it towards that. So that's, uh, that's my current mindset.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah. I got- You know? I did a, kind of a purge a couple years ago and I got rid of 18 guns in one purge. Mm. And, uh, it was good, 'cause they're guns I'm never ever gonna use ever again.

Mm-hmm. So I just got rid of those and then, you know, I quickly filled those slots back up, but, um- ... I've always- Well, what's- ... got stuff coming and going, you know.

Travis Bader: What, what are your standbys? What do you, what are the type of guns that you definitely wouldn't be getting rid of?

Kyle Lamb: Well, I [00:46:00] would say, I, I mean, ARs, that's my favorite-

Travis Bader: Mm

Kyle Lamb: favorite firearm, I guess I would say. I've got quite a few of those. But the... I, I don't mind getting rid of something like that that I'm not using, 'cause I f- Mm-hmm ... you know, if I've upgraded to something newer or whatever. So, um, yeah, ARs. I, I have obviously quite a few different pistols that are, are... You know, back in the day when we had 1911s.

Mm-hmm. So I've got, of course, 1911s and some old fat guns, you know, that were in .40 Smith & Wesson. And then, um, then we carried Glocks for a while, so I've got several Glocks. And then I started shooting M&Ps, Smith & Wesson M&Ps. Yeah. So I've got a couple M&Ps. And then I, you know, now I shoot SIG products, and, uh, so I've got several 320s, 365s.

Yeah. Um, and now I've got into this stupid bolt gun phase. [00:47:00] Man, that's- Bolt guns are fricking expensive.

Travis Bader: You know? Oh, yeah. It, it adds up, and people are like, "Oh, I'm just gonna get, like, NRL22 or something and save money 'cause it's just a 22." Have you looked at the prices of those 22 rigs? Oh,

Kyle Lamb: I've got a couple NRL22s.

For sure. Yeah, and I mean, just, like, the ammo and then sorting through which ammo- Yeah ... you're gonna shoot and then the scope for that thing, and then having to, "Oh, that's not shooting good enough. I'm gonna re-barrel it with a custom..." Oh, man. I've went- Yeah ... down the rabbit hole.

Travis Bader: Yep.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah. Like-

Travis Bader: Yeah, we got IBI out here in, uh, not too far from where I'm at, and MDT was...

Actually, MDT, when they first started, it was a fellow by the name of Laszlo Clementis, and he was selling, uh, gun parts and accessories on a popular Canadian gun forum. And I was living with my wife in this rental house in, in, uh, the White Rock area, and it was a complete just run-down crap hole of a house, but it had a shop in the back and [00:48:00] had a quarter acre, and I'm like, "This is perfect."

And I was doing the parkerizing for, uh, for Laszlo and his muzzle breaks- Oh, okay ... and screws- Yeah ... and stuff that he made. But he ended up, um, having Martin come on there, and with MDT, Martin's really t- taken it to the next level. And Laszlo started, uh, International Barrels, which is now, I think, IBI Precision, so they're cou- couple of little local companies here that, that-

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, MDT, I actually, uh, I write for their blog and stuff, and I shoot their...

I use their s- chassis on most of my-

Travis Bader: Mm ...

Kyle Lamb: long-range stuff. And, uh, yeah, they've been really good for me to deal with. You know, it started out, I was just trying to get product codes so I could get a, a discount. Sure. And now, now I can get a better, uh, even a better deal than just the discount 'cause I get to test some of the new products and do that.

But they're, they're s- they're good people, and they're, they're, uh, some of their shooters that they have are very good friends of mine, so-

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm ...

Kyle Lamb: it's, it's nice to see. They, they [00:49:00] usually attract pretty good people.

Travis Bader: And it's interest- So Josh has been on the podcast, and he's with MDT. Martin, who's, you know, has been on, uh, the podcast, and, um, very faith-oriented individuals.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah.

Travis Bader: Yep. Which, i- and it's, it's interesting to see the, uh, success that follows a person who will live their life by a certain code, and if that code is altruistic and it's got a, uh, uh... May- maybe it's just having the, uh, the concept of a higher power, that you're n- you're not the be-all, end-all, and just having that is humbling and allows you to, to, to grow things out.

I, I, I'm noticing it over and over again. Yeah. Like Bear Grylls, he's been pretty p- uh, popular. He's done well for himself. He's actually written some books. I think the last one he wrote was, um- The Greatest Story, I think it was called. I, I wasn't able to read the whole thing. Uh, this book, [00:50:00] however, is more my style of how I can, uh, how I enjoy to consume information.

It's, um, uh, it's got a flair to it that, uh, that I found lacking in that, that other book.

Kyle Lamb: Well, you gotta write to your customer, and our customers are you and military dudes, law enforcement. Like, Joe Average guy out there, this isn't meant... You know, if you're a, if, if you're a, a Bible scholar, you're gonna scoff at this book.

You just are. But I'm not trying to help Bible scholars out, I'm trying to help- Mm-hmm ... people out that, that are, that might be lost or, or wondering. And if you look at the beginning, you know, what it says in there for the commander's intent to reach the unreachable.

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: So, you know, the Bible scholar's not the unreachable.

The unreachable is that guy or gal that's never gonna read the [00:51:00] Bible, you know? And if I tell them a story, they're gonna be like, "Now what? This was from the Bible?" Mm-hmm. "Are you serious?" Like, and we start out slow. We start out with, uh, a, a story about Moses when he was a baby, and it's, it's not real, like, it's not super exciting.

But then we get going with, you know, uh, Joshua and Caleb going into the Promised Land and doing a reconnaissance. Mm. Man, can you imagine the intensity of that? You know? Yeah. And then it gets even more, like you get into Gideon and fighting, and you get into Benaiah and going into a pit with a lion on a snowy day.

Like, what, like what was that about- Jesus ... you know? So it's- Yeah ... it's, it's, that's, uh... Yeah, I think that, that, like you said, you know, you, you wanna be, for us, um- We're, we're, we're pretty particular about who we work with in the industry Mm-hmm And, uh, we try to avoid shysters and, uh- They're everywhere ... yeah, and snake oil salesmen.

Um- [00:52:00] Mm-hmm ... you know, and you gotta be careful too. You don't wanna, like, wear your, wear your, your, your faith as a badge of honor because it's not. Like, it should be, you know, that should be held close to your- A personal thing? Yeah. It should be held close to your, your vest, and you should, you know, you should, you should let your actions tell people that that's how you feel.

You shouldn't come out and say, "Oh, well, I wanna do business with you 'cause I'm, I'm this or I'm that." 'Cause that makes me go, "Well, wait a minute."

Travis Bader: That's where the shysters like to hide.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah. It's like, man, I don't know. I'm not sure. I mean, I'll admit my faith to anybody on the planet. I have no problem- Sure

with that. But I, I do think sometimes people... 'Cause I've been, I've been probably screwed by the, by those people more than any other people that we've dealt with. 'Cause, you know, there's some guys that are complete dirtbags that I deal with, and I love them because they're, they're honest- They live, they live, they live a moral code that's written in the Good Book, and they [00:53:00] don't read the Good Book.

Hmm. Because they're just good... They're, they're, they are good people that when they're, when they say something, their word actually matters, but they're rough around the edges. You know, they're, they're probably tattooed up. They're, you know... I mean, nothing wrong with tattoos, obviously. No. But there's... But, but they're a rougher kinda guy.

Yeah. That's the people that I'm attracted to, you know? Like, that's the person that I want to... I want to be with them because I can trust them more than some of the other-

Travis Bader: Right ...

Kyle Lamb: people out there. Yeah.

Travis Bader: That's always been my... So I w- I was raised in this Roman Catholic environment, went to a few different Catholic schools.

I kept getting kicked out. It was high energy, high interest, lots of things. But, um-

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, being a boy. Yeah ... uh,

Travis Bader: well, that's it, right? I mean, it, th- there is a way to deal with people, and I had one teacher who actually did a g- It was in grade four. He's like, "I don't know if I can teach you, but you seem really interested in chemistry.

Did you wanna bring your chemistry [00:54:00] set and set up in the back? And you can teach chemistry at the, uh, uh, lunch breaks." And I mean, a quarter of the class would stay back because we're making disappearing ink and things blow up, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Endothermic, exothermic reactions, and that's cool. Yeah.

And I was 110% into that. It was just you're... That's where it goes. I, I don't think the, uh, general schooling system is geared towards that kind. It's, it's hard to cater to each individual interest. I get it. Um, but you're talking about, uh, uh, being in that, you get to see people of faith and people who wear the faith because of what it makes them.

Yeah. And the human institution of it all was the one thing that really kind of set me off from, from that path for a long time, and, um, just looking at how corruptible. I mean, [00:55:00] we're all corruptible. Everyone's-

Kyle Lamb: Yeah ...

Travis Bader: fallible, and that's where I find hunting and being in the forest, um, a place where you can connect with the divine, where you can, um...

Yeah. So e- everyone's got their own kinda path there. You've taken a, uh, a very vocal, uh, path in showing people. You're not saying, "This is what you gotta do." You're saying, "Here's a path. It might work for you. I mean, it's worked for me. It looks... It might work for you," right? And, and I, I really can appreciate that approach.

Kyle Lamb: Well, one of the things that I see a lot on our side of the aisle, and I'm gonna just blurt it out there, it's we see a lot of, of Christian people talking bad about Muslims-

Travis Bader: Mm ...

Kyle Lamb: and Islam. And I'm gonna tell you, I've got a buddy that is Muslim that's done more f- for my faith [00:56:00] than any Christian has done for my faith in the last couple years.

Mm. Because he's been my friend, and he made me realize that not all of those people are bad. Not all of them are terrorists. You know what I'm saying? Mm. Like, we're, we're trying to say they're all terrorists. Well, come on, man. Give me a break. And then when I, when I read it in the Bible and it says that the two things that you're supposed to do, that God, that Jesus said that you're supposed to do is you should, heart, body, soul, mind, everything you focus on the Lord as the Lord, and then the second thing is to love your neighbor.

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm.

Kyle Lamb: He's my neighbor.

Travis Bader: That's a, that's something you're not seeing a lot of, uh, in past years, and I'm also seeing a resurgence, and maybe it's just my feed or maybe it's where my attention is, but you're seeing a resurgence in the popularity of faith, uh, particularly Christianity. And, and maybe it's because that pendulum swung [00:57:00] so far to one side that the people are starting to push back a bit.

It's easy to be able to manipulate and control masses by having a shared enemy, and that shared enemy can just be one side against the other. It's way harder to find value in the side that you are supposed to despise and find common ground. Yeah, and the thing

Kyle Lamb: is, he, he, he sent me a, a Bible verse one day and I was like, now it's a Bible verse.

It's not from the Quran. It's a Bible verse. And I read it and I'm like, man, that's a, that's just what I needed today. Yeah. Like, this guy loves me like a brother, and I needed that today. And then a couple days later I called him up and I said, "Hey, man." And, and the re- the way we met is I speak Arabic, colloquial Egyptian Arabic.

Yeah. And we, he was in one of my classes, and he's a, he's Egyptian. And when I found that out, I, I laid on some colloquial Egyptian Arabic to me and he's like- ... "You're speaking Arabic and you're speaking my dialect." [00:58:00] And we were just like a, instantly we had this- ... we had this thing going on, you know?

Travis Bader: Did we just become best friends?

Kyle Lamb: Yeah. So we s- we started talking and, and, and he said, "Well, I sent you that verse out, out of the Bible because I, I didn't think that you would appreciate if I sent you a verse from the Quran."

Travis Bader: Do you remember the verse?

Kyle Lamb: Um, I'd have to dig, I'd have to dig it up. Okay. But the, the, the moral of the story is he cared enough to take a verse from the Quran and go find- Hmm

that same verse in the Bible that says the same thing. It's not the same- Hmm ... verse, but it says the same thing, and he sent me what I needed, not what somebody who's Muslim would need.

Travis Bader: Hmm.

Kyle Lamb: So th- that, so that led us, that led me down- Like, w- so what are, what, what truly are his beliefs? Like, what ... You know, we hear all of the beliefs about how bad these people are.

Right. And I'm, I'm not trying to convert anybody to, to be [00:59:00] Islamic. That's not what I'm trying to do. You know that. But-

Travis Bader: Sure ...

Kyle Lamb: w- if you look in the Quran, there's, they speak of Jesus. Okay, now their beliefs in Jesus are different than our beliefs in Jesus. Mm. Um, there's a book of Mary about Mary the mother of Jesus.

A lot of these other figures that are in the Bible are also in the Quran. So I'm, what I'm, I guess what I'm trying to get at is, you know, they believe that Jesus is the Messiah, that he sits at the right hand of God, and that he's coming back. Okay, well, that's, that's similar to what I believe. Now, I'm not- Sure

I'm not trying to tell people to go out and, and and change. That's not it. I'm just telling you that when you meet somebody like that, meet them where they're at, and that's as your neighbor. So- Mm ... love your neighbor. That's what the Good Book says, love your neighbor. He's my neighbor. You know, he's, obviously, we don't, he doesn't live close to me here, but-

Travis Bader: Sure

Kyle Lamb: he's the guy, [01:00:00] and he has given me more back than, than anybody that I've been in contact with because he's, he's so open with his faith, he'll, if I ask him a hard question, he will give me the hard answer.

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: And, and he asks me some hard questions, too, and I just shoot, you know, completely straight with him because there's, there's absolutely no judgment from either side, and I think that's what, where no matter what your beliefs are, I, I don't think that in either one of those books it says you should judge other people.

Mm-hmm. It definitely, you know, the, it, it doesn't say that. I had a lady the other day, I was eating chow with a good buddy of mine, and he's got a, he's a, he, he uses the F word, uh, a lot.

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: He's from up in, uh, uh, New England. He was from up there. Now he lives down here. So this lady gets up beside us at this Mexican restaurant, and she's getting ready to leave, a big old heavy-set gal, and [01:01:00] she stops at our table and she goes, "I just want to let you know that you're, you're, you're in Centerville, Tennessee, and we're a Christian community, and we don't appreciate talk like that," and, and blah blah blah.

You know, she started going on. My buddy's like, "What is she saying?" 'Cause he's-

Travis Bader: Sure ...

Kyle Lamb: deaf. He couldn't hear what she's saying. I said, "Oh, you know, I-" Yeah. And I didn't say anything, and she keeps going, and I was like, I, I've met a few Pharisees, but I saw one standing right there- ... trying to tell me, you know, like, how we have to act.

Right. I'm here meeting this guy where he's at, and I'm loving him because he's my brother, he's my friend, and I wanna help him out, and he speaks a little bit differently than she believes people should speak. I'm with him, and I'm, I'm with him

Travis Bader: Well, Christ didn't, didn't hang with all the perfect people.

Well, yeah, he- You know, there were some prostitutes and the-

Kyle Lamb: Fishermen. Yeah. Yeah.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, so, so anyway- Those dirty

Travis Bader: fishermen, yes.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah. So finally she leaves, and he goes, "What did she say?" And I told, I [01:02:00] told him, and he, of course, he went off, you know, about that too. And, uh, and I was mad. I was like, "You attacked my friend."

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: And you use this term that, you know, this, this cookie cutter of what a Christian is supposed to be versus what the Bible says. Mm. So you're taking what you, you know, you're taking old, you know, y- you're, you're... And that's why I would say, you know, like a Pharisee or something that's, that's- Sure, of course

kinda trying to, to lay rules on us from the Old Testament where, well, if you wanna go and sacrifice animals, you do that. But, you know- Mm ... Christ died on the cross for us, so I'm gonna go with that. I'm gonna go with the latest update to that good book. You know what I'm saying?

Travis Bader: Latest firmware update.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, yeah.

So anyway, it, the, I guess what I'm saying there is you, you just never know how you're gonna, who you're gonna meet, how, how... I don't know where I was going with that, [01:03:00] honestly. I just think- Well- ... it's a, a good discussion to have because there's enough hate out there. We don't need to add to that. Now, there's people that do need to be hated, you know, if there's child molesters and folks like that.

100%. I'm, I'm all on board with that. Mm-hmm. That's a different, that's completely a different line of questioning, you know?

Travis Bader: That's right.

Kyle Lamb: Um, but when it comes to, you know, if a guy is Jewish or Muslim or Buddhist or whatever, uh, y- so you're telling me I gotta hate that guy? I just, I don't- There- I really don't think so.

Travis Bader: There's more that connects us than actually divides us. And- Yeah. But that's not what people see on the day to day, because it's, may- maybe we're wired that way to begin with. I, I think some people obviously will take advantage of that wiring, and they'll use it for their own benefit to try and, uh, divert attention maybe from what they're doing or to control masses or whatever it might be.

But I, I don't think there's some grand architect out there saying, "Okay, now [01:04:00] we're gonna make them hate here, and we're gonna make them hate here." I think people do that well enough just on their own.

Kyle Lamb: Oh, yeah.

Travis Bader: I think we're- Yeah ... we're, we're naturally wired just to find the differences and become tribal.

And, and, and I find there's a lot of people out there who like to, uh, cloak themselves in virtue, uh, when it's not actually what they are. It's, um-

Kyle Lamb: So, so you just said something I wanna jump in on. You said about the tribe.

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: So I ha- I'm, I maybe have a different- We, we're all, I guess we all have different opinions.

Travis Bader: Sure.

Kyle Lamb: So my opinion on tribe is that tribe is a good thing. Yes. And I think tribe is a good thing because- You should be around people that make you better. Yes. And tribe makes you better. Tribe, the, the members of a tribe take care of each other. Now, when I say tribe, I'm not talking about the color [01:05:00] of your skin.

I'm not talking about what part of the planet you happen to be born on. Mm-hmm. I'm not talking about what religion you choose. This dude, Sharif, is part of my tribe. I mean, I... He's, he's met my daughter, he's met my wife. He's, he loves my family. He's part of my tribe. And some people would say, "Oh, you know, they're gonna..."

It's like, well, then you're not part of my tribe. If you don't love your neighbors, then you're not part of my tribe. You know what I'm saying? Yes. And who, who are the neighbors? You know, the, the, the, the kid that's, that's starving to death, you know, in in Burma or, or, or they've been bombed. Well, my buddy lives in Thailand, so that's his neighbor, and they're literally...

Free Burma Rangers are going in there and helping those people out. They're actually- Mm-hmm ... helping their neighbors. And the first things they do are not, "Oh, you better believe in God or I'm not gonna help you." They don't say that- Right ... because they're good people. They say, "How can we help you to fix the wound that you just got?

You're displaced, so [01:06:00] let's try to get you a place to live. You know, it's gonna be made out of a, a, a bamboo poles and a tarp or something like that. We're gonna get you some chow over here. We're gonna get you medical aid. And okay, we're, we're done with all that. Hey, we're gonna do this thing. Would your kids like to come and we're gonna do this good news program, and they're gonna sing, and we're gonna give them some books to color in or-

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm

Kyle Lamb: whatever." Well, what do you think those people do? They're like, "I wanna be part of that tribe."

Travis Bader: 100%.

Kyle Lamb: These people are helping me out. That's their... You know, and they're, they're white and they are brown. That doesn't matter to anybody there. You know, it matters that they're all, they all have the same mission, and that mission is to good, to, to survive with their families and be good people.

It's not a, a mission to eradicate somebody off the planet, you know?

Travis Bader: Right. Yeah, I like that, shared mission. I've always looked at it as just a shared value structure, and it's, uh, you know, Constantin Kisin, he's a political pundit, w- very, very well-spoken, uh, British fellow from [01:07:00] Russia, I think he is. Uh, and he talks about, you know, diversity is not our strength.

You don't go onto a football team and say, "Okay, everyone, just go do your own thing." No. You have a shared mission. Yeah. You have a shared goal that you all work towards. You can bring in diverse ideas, but they all have to have some overarching binding agent in there. And he talks about the, um, uh, um, uh, like, the...

We have to think about the, the British Jewish community and the, um, uh, the Muslim Jewish comm- or the, uh, British Muslim community and, and all these different communities you gotta think about. He's like, "No, you gotta think about Britain. You have to think about what we're doing 'cause we're all in this whole thing together."

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, yeah. Yep.

Travis Bader: It's, uh... W- was there an inflection point for you when, uh... 'Cause you've been a man of faith for a long time, but was there a point when it was like, "Okay, hold on a second. This means something here"?

Kyle Lamb: W- so my belief or, or this thing that I'm talking about with-

Travis Bader: [01:08:00] No, faith. Uh, your belief.

Kyle Lamb: Well, I was, I've been a believer since I was a kid, but I, I, I've...

You know, my path was not very straight.

Travis Bader: Right.

Kyle Lamb: My straight, my, my path has been pretty circuitous and, and I guess-

But looking back, my, when did I talk to God? I talked to God when I wanted protection and safety, and sometimes it was, you know, like I didn't wanna be a coward, so, "Hey, God, look out for me. Don't let me be a coward in this gunfight- Sure ... or whatever." Sure. Um, "I'm gonna jump out of this airplane tonight from 24,999 feet.

Please help me," you know?

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm.

Kyle Lamb: Um, I don't pray like that anymore, so I've, I've, my, my faith has evolved where I'm not asking for protection. Now I'm asking for other things like, "Help me to do your will." Y- [01:09:00] y- your will, not my will, your will. Like, what, what is it I need? And it'll be put in front of you if you just, you know, if you take that time, like you said, you know, that time that you spend in the woods- Mm-hmm

that quiet time, that's what it's about. It's ... You could do that in your house, too, if you could just shut everything off and go into a room and just can be completely quiet. You can make that happen, too. It's just easier outside because everywhere you look, it's God. You know, every- Mm ... every plant, every animal.

You know, y- if you think that a woodpecker, you look at how their tongue is designed, you're telling me that is- ... evolution? Right. Give me a freaking break, you know? So I think that it's, th- there's no time that I can just say that I made a, a flip, and I still struggle just like everybody else, and I think that's, that's kinda the point of this book, too, is that those battlefield reflections, I'm very honest in those, and- You know, I show you the, I show you the dirty laundry- Mm

and it's, everybody has that. If anybody says they don't, they're, [01:10:00] they're-

Travis Bader: They're full of it.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah. They're, they're probably not quite telling the truth there. Um, man, I fall off the wagon, you know, dozens of times a day. Y- you know, I'll do something, I'm like, "Ugh, I don't wanna do that," you know? Okay, okay, God, you gotta get me back on track here.

You know, and sometimes I'll do it and I don't even, like I, I don't go till the end of the day and I'm like, "Ugh, man, today I really sucked." Mm. I gotta do, I gotta do better tomorrow. And I think that's the, that's the point I would make to people is don't think like you're all of a sudden gonna wake up one day and you're, you know, wearing a robe and, and you're gonna-

you know, sing songs all day, 'cause I don't think any of us has the time to be able to do that. But you may have a point where it might become a little bit easier, you know, to get past some of those... You know, and s- and some of those, th- there's a chapter in here called Iron Sharpens Iron, and I talk about my buddy in, in Hawaii, [01:11:00] Shane Fujinaga.

He, he and I met, and very quickly we become friends. And the very first day that I met him, that evening he took me to where I was supposed to be lodging right on the, in, in Hawaii, right on the, the shore there. And, and I asked him a question, and he, he gave me an answer. And man, the, the question I asked him was, like, how do you, like- I wanna, I want to, to be a Christian, I wanna make sure that I'm doing the right things.

And he said, now this is not what he said, but, you know, "Wide is the path, but narrow is the gate that leads to righteousness." That's not what the Bible says, and that's not what he said, but that's what I heard. Hmm. Because it's, it actually says, you know, "Wide is the gate..." Or, "Wide is the path and wide is the gate that leads to," you know, to failure, basically.

Mm-hmm. And then, "Narrow is the path and narrow is the gate that leads to righteousness." When I heard that, I was like, that, that [01:12:00] changed how I felt because... And I, and I'll tell you where it came from. So, stopped drinking, haven't drank in 12 years. Mm-hmm. And didn't have, like, a big problem with it, I just, it just needed to stop.

Doesn't help you. Yeah. Yeah. So on this very first trip I go on, I'm in this hunting camp, and there's a buddy of mine that's a preacher and he's drinking. And I was like... And I was struggling with that. I was like, man, I just, I'm not sure... I'm not judging here, but this, like, I'm... I don't know, man. Hmm. And so I come back from that, and then I end up in Hawaii, and I'm asking my buddy, I'm like, "Here's what happened," you know, and, and then he said that.

And, and this guy Shane is just a man's man. He's like, he's got- ... fingers like the size of... Uh, he's just a- ... he's just a tough, tough dude, you know? Yeah. He goes out, he goes out spearfishing. I'm like, "Well, how, how long do you go out there? How long do you go swim around?" He goes, "Oh, bro. Sometimes I swim for, like, 12 hours."

Yep. And I'm like, [01:13:00] "12 hours?" Yep. "You gotta be kidding me," you know? And he's just got, he's just a great dude, so we've become, um, good friends and, and, uh, just a good, good dude. So like I, you know, like I said before, he's part of my tribe, you know what I'm saying?

Travis Bader: So what does praying look like to you? Because I think to a lot of people, praying looks like a genie in a bottle.

It's like, "Can you grant this wish? Can I get that? Okay, I really... I d- I did something stupid, and, uh, can you fix it? Can you make it not hurt?" What's it look like to you now?

Kyle Lamb: Um, I just You don't have to, you know, you, you don't have to do it in front of people to make it count. Yes. That's one thing you need to remember.

And you don't have to say a word. You can do it in your mind. I usually try to kinda say it, but a lot of times if I'm out in public, I'm, I mean, I might be praying about something right then and there. Um, you know, I'm on a airplane and the flight attendants are [01:14:00] being turds. It's like, okay, Lord, just help me right now to, to not tell them what the actual laws are because they're saying one

You know, it's like- Yes. Yep ... just, just stop. Just l- give me the, give me the, give me the patience and compassion to stop right there and, and- Mm ... and fix this, you know? Um, now there are other times that it's pretty hardcore praying. And, uh, so I was at a, I was at an event and my buddy shows up there, and it's kinda cool.

He's actually gonna be showing up here tomorrow, and we're going to a, a men's event in Nashville. He's from Florida. And he shows up at one of my leadership seminars and he's like, "Um, when you, when you get done, I got a couple of God questions for you." And I'm like, "What?" Mm. And he's been in a bunch of my classes.

So I hurried up my, put my stuff away and we sit down and we start talking. There was another guy there, and eventually I was like, "Hey, dude, I, I gotta, we gotta talk s- about some personal stuff here if you could." So this dude [01:15:00] bails. So I'm, I'm sitting there talking to my buddy and, and I go, "So what's up?"

And he goes, "I'm just, this faith thing, I, I'm ... You know, we've talked about before, and you know, what about reading the Bible?" And we're having this conversation, and I said, "Well, have you prayed about it?" And he goes, "Well, I've prayed before, but I didn't get what I was asking for."

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: And I was like, "Well, what, what did you pray about?"

And he said, "Well, I was in a softball tournament, and I wanted to win the softball tournament, so I prayed about it, and I never won." And I was like, "Bro, do you think God has the time to worry about FIFA or your- ... your softball tournament?" He's like, "Uh." And I said, "So let's, let's back this up. Let's talk about what is an answer to prayer."

I said, "You told me today ..." Yesterday w- I went to eat chow with a buddy of his, and his buddy sent him a picture, and he's like, "What's Kyle doing here?" And he goes, "Well, he's down here to do a leadership seminar for all the sergeants." And he goes, "Aren't you a [01:16:00] sergeant?" He goes, "Oh, yeah. I didn't know Kyle was the speaker.

I'm supposed to be in that class."

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: So he shows up. I said, "Well, do you think maybe this is an answer to prayer?"

Travis Bader: Hmm. '

Kyle Lamb: Cause we're sitting right here having this conversation. He's like, "Huh, I never thought of it that way." And I said, "Okay. Well, I mean, I'm not saying I'm an answer to your prayer. I'm not, not, I'm not trying to be that-

Travis Bader: Sure

Kyle Lamb: bold that I would say that, but we're having this conversation right now that's, you're been struggling with, and we're sitting here face-to-face and we're having it w- this didn't just happen." Mm-hmm. You know? So he's like, "Hmm. Well, how do you read the Bible?" And I'm like, "Man, just pick it up. Wherever you start reading is gonna be fine.

Don't, don't think you gotta read it cover to cover. Don't think you have to do this. Just let it fall open and then read, and guess what? It's gonna be exactly what you need right there." Hmm. "And then go on about your day, you know?" And at the time, his wife was not a believer. He's [01:17:00] not really there yet. His kids are just kinda, like, they don't really know.

And, uh, he gets up and gives me a hug, and away he goes. And I'm like, "All right. I hope..." You know, I'm like, "All right, God, be with this dude. Just be with him. I don't know, you know, whatever's meant to be with him, be there if he's got questions or whatever. Show him, try to show him the way." So he leaves, and I go with my other buddy, and I, I, I told him what we're sitting, and I was like, "Yeah, I had a long talk with this guy before we, uh, got out of there today."

And he's like, "Oh." And boom, my phone buzzes, and I look down, and it's from this guy.

Travis Bader: Hmm.

Kyle Lamb: And I, I was like, "Okay, I hope this is good." And I opened it up, and he goes, "Yeah, man, I left and I, I was driving home, and a homeless guy come out and accosted my car and come up beside me, and he didn't say a word. He didn't ask for anything.

He didn't put his hand out. He didn't try to clean my windshield. But he put a [01:18:00] sign in my window, a little cardboard sign, and it said, 'Jesus is the answer.'"

Travis Bader: Hmm. "

Kyle Lamb: And then he pulled it back, and he walked away."

Travis Bader: Hmm.

Kyle Lamb: And he said, "I got it. I get it. I'm o- I'm good. I'm, I'm on this." Well, now let's, you know, fast-forward now a year later.

Him and his wife are both going to church with their kids. They've all been baptized. I mean, it's a, a very positive thing. He's coming this weekend to go to an event with me in Nashville- Hmm ... him and another one of his buddies. So- That's, that's how it works out. It's not like this magical thing. And I've ha- I've had some really crazy stuff happen to me, and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna share some of that.

But I've had some, I've had some answers given to me that, that They're not made by man. You know? [01:19:00] And that's- You know- That's it. That's, if, but you, but, but you can't get an answer if you're not listening.

Travis Bader: Yes. It, it's, I, I think it's kinda like Jeep drivers. These guys, they, they get a new Jeep, they just got their first Jeep, and they look, drive around and they see Jeeps everywhere.

Well, the Jeeps were always there, but you're just paying attention now, right? And they're all waving to each other. And I bring this up 'cause my son got a Jeep and he's like, "Oh, look at all these Jeeps everywhere," right? And the Jeeps are-

Kyle Lamb: My wife and I had this conversation today. What is up with the daggum ducks?

Travis Bader: Yes. I have no idea. It's, but they got 'em, and they'll duck you, and they'll put the Jeep duck or whatever on the, uh-

Kyle Lamb: Dude, you gotta- I don't know what

Travis Bader: that's about ...

Kyle Lamb: you, you, they, they must drive like complete sissies because- ... there's no way a duck would stay on the dash of my truck. Right. Come on. That duck would be quacking and rolling off the side.

Travis Bader: You know what I'm saying? Yes. Yeah. Um, well, I got the luxury of living about 10 [01:20:00] minutes away from my studio here, and the office is about a 10-minute walk away, and I, um, I, I don't have to drive too much because living in the lower mainland here, it's an easy way to, uh, to definitely get your blood pressure up a few points.

I think I gotta do what you do. You're, you got a nice place out there in Tennessee where you got a little bit of space. Yeah. And, uh, I think that's the, uh, the plan as we move forward.

Kyle Lamb: Well, no, man, it's good. It's, it's, it's, uh, I don't know. It's the Jeep people always do crack me up and the- ... everybody, I don't know.

It's like just 'cause you own a Jeep, that doesn't mean we're bros, you know what I'm saying? Like- ... it's kinda like my buddy, he had a Harley. He had like this big Harley chopper thing, you know? Sure. A customized thing that he built, and he's like, "Why are these people waving at me? I'm not their bro. Like, they drive a Harley- Right

and I drive a Harley. W- we're not friends because you got a Harley," [01:21:00] you know? So I- Soul Porch

Travis Bader: did a whole episode on that one.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, yeah. I just, that just- ... that cracks me up. It does. Now, what I would say is this. As you go farther away from the flagpole, you get closer and closer, this is my opinion, you get closer and closer to the people that are your tribe.

Hmm. Because if I leave, if I leave my house and I get on a airplane and I fly to out west, and then I get in a vehicle and I drive out to the mountains, and then I get on a horse and I ride up into a hunting camp- Mm-hmm ... or I walk up into a hunting camp, and then I sit down at a fire with five other people that have done the same-

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm

Kyle Lamb: trip to get where they're at, probably sitting there with five people that are part of my tribe.

Travis Bader: I agree. I

Kyle Lamb: agree. We don't agree on everything, and that's what's fun about that. But when, when we're out there and we don't agree, we don't hate each other. We have great- Right ... discussions, and it's, it's just awesome.

I think [01:22:00] that's, you know, to me that's kinda how that, you know, how that shakes out. And it's the same because if I go to teach a shooting class, there's more of a, a, the ability for them to be part of my tribe. Or if I'm going to a shooting- Yeah ... match or if I walk into, you know, if I walk into a Chick-fil-A, I'm probably gonna be around more people that I agree with- Sure

you know, than if I walk into a Starbucks. So I, I- Yeah. Sure ... I have a new, one of my new goals is never to drink Starbucks coffee ever again in my life. And I've been doing- Good goal ... pretty good for the last little bit, so. Good

Travis Bader: goal. How many classes are you teaching a year now?

Kyle Lamb: I have no idea.

Travis Bader: Lots?

Kyle Lamb: No, I'm doing less than I was.

So, like, this month I think I do three classes. Um-

Travis Bader: Primarily just in the s- warmer months or, because three classes-

Kyle Lamb: No, I- ... a month- Well, I don't do, so usually I don't do classes in, in September because it's elk season. Hunting, yeah. [01:23:00] But this year I'm actually doing one the end of September. And then I've got, um, I'm trying to think.

December I know I've got a couple classes 'cause I'm doing some stuff for Sig up at, at Sig Academy. But I, I, I generally do it when it's not hunting season.

Travis Bader: Hmm.

Kyle Lamb: So- I

Travis Bader: agree ...

Kyle Lamb: and then the other thing I've been doing too is I wait till the NRL hunter schedule comes out. I put all those cl- those, those matches that I wanna shoot on the schedule- Smart

and I plan my training around that. And, and sometimes I have to miss, miss matches 'cause I've got, you know, certain things that I have to do. But, uh, yeah, I suppose this year I'll probably do, like, 24- Probably like 24 classes, something like that. Okay. I honestly, I don't even know, and I don't really wanna know.

We've, we've kinda changed the way that we do this so that it's, we do it if we wanna do it, we do it. If we don't wanna do it- [01:24:00] Mm-hmm ... we don't do it. I like that a lot. 'Cause there's some places I don't, like I don't want to go, like I, I just can't go there. I can't go to California- Yeah, I get it ... or Washington State.

Yeah. I can't do it because the, the, the gun laws there won't allow me to do what I need to do. Um- Yeah ... you know, I can't go to foreign countries and train because of my background. Mm-hmm. And there's enough people to train in America that I don't, you know, and I've done stuff for Canadian Special Forces, and I've done stuff for other organizations too, but I've always done that at the be- the behest of the US government, so it's- Mm-hmm

so it's completely legal when I do it that way. But we're not gonna put, you know, put through the paperwork for me to go, you know, train a bunch of people- Sure ... in Jordan or something like that. Um, I'm really interested to see if this book opens any doors for opportunities as well. I, I don't know what's gonna happen there.

Um- Like what kind

Travis Bader: of opportunities?

Kyle Lamb: Well, honestly, I've spoken at a, a few churches already, and i- [01:25:00] that's probably the most nerve-wracking thing that I've ever done because it's just- Yeah? ... you know, you gotta, you, you wanna get it right. I don't wanna ... Wanna make sure I don't cuss or get struck by lightning or-

anything like that, you know? So, um- Yeah, I, I guess we'll see. Uh, we- we'll see what happens. I just, I'm just excited for the future, and I don't even know what it is. I don't know what the, what the future holds, but man, it's always, it's, it's always better than I ever planned.

Travis Bader: Yeah. I, I, I guess what I was asking about the courses, like, do you find it when you're in a course, you have set class sizes-

Kyle Lamb: Yes

Travis Bader: X number of people that can fit- Yes ... inside a classroom, yet when you write a book, you, you don't have that limitation. When you're on social media, you don't have that limitation. You've got a reach, and you've only got so many hours in a day. Do you find it, um, increasingly difficult to dedicate one-on-one time when you know you could reach a much wider [01:26:00] audience through your, your writing or through the, um, the knife work or through the foundation that you have?

Kyle Lamb: Well, the, the here's the... I'll just tell you the truth, how about that?

Travis Bader: Okay. That sounds- If I- ... a good place to start ...

Kyle Lamb: if I shoot guns, I get paid.

Travis Bader: Okay. I love it.

Kyle Lamb: And that's just, I'm just being honest with you. W- I love to teach shooting, and I get paid very well, and we have a minimum pay, so it's, it's up to 15 students, it's this much a do- this many dollars a day.

Mm. And that's how it is. If you want one student, it's still that same amount of money for one student. Mm. So we don't do it very many one-man classes. I do some- Sure ... that are, like, three or four guys, and they don't mind paying that because they're- Mm ... then they get more attention than, than if I've got 15 guys on the range.

When I do a, a leadership seminar, the rule there is if you can fit them in the room, they're allowed in. So it's- Mm ... it's much, it's much more of a benefit. I just did one in Texas last weekend, [01:27:00] and Sig, you know, they had... they could fit 40 people in this room comfortably. Mm. They could fit 100 in there, but, but, but then that's not gonna work for a six-hour- Sure

class. So they put 40 in that room. They put it out. They filled the 40 slots. I went and did my thing, and, you know, it's, it, it works out great. So I like- To teach shooting if it's a class that I want to teach. If it's some- Hmm ... if it's, there's some places I just, I, I just don't wanna go. Like I, I, I have- I get it

some places that I go where I have usually, like, uh, Sig Academy, when I go there, in a 15-man class, sometimes there'll be two people I don't know. Usually I know- Hmm ... everybody in the class. That's fun. And that's fun. That's like- Yeah ... being with all my bros, you know, and we just are doing our th- and it's, it's really, really- And you get paid to do it.

Yeah, and I get paid to do it. So yeah, I love, I, I, I like to make money to, to- Yeah ... so that I can [01:28:00] do the other stuff, and that's kind of the rule my wife and I have is if I'm gonna go shoot this match, which is all gonna be out of pocket- Hmm ... I gotta teach a class to pay for that match, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. So I'm teaching because I wanna teach and because I have to earn money so I can use it for, for other things. Um, there are things I do that I don't get paid for that I enjoy just as well. I got asked the other day to go speak to a football team and I went and, you know, spoke with them for 45 minutes, and that's, you know, that's always fun.

I've spoke, like I was invited to go speak to the, the incoming Boston Bruins, um, hockey team. That was a lot of fun. A, you know, a bunch of young guys. Um, I've been up to West Point a few times to speak to the, the, the, uh, cadets up there. That's always good. I spoke this year at the, um, Sig does a big event that they, they bring in all the cadets from the different academies and they have a big shooting competition.

Hmm. And I was the guest speaker for the, the banquet at that. That was awesome 'cause I [01:29:00] could, I could like talk to these upcoming young officers and, you know, kinda tell them, you know, my thoughts on the world before they step in there and, and actually meet other guys just like me that are gonna be working for them, you know?

So. That,

Travis Bader: is that sort of the natural, uh, progression of a warrior in your mind? That you go from a hard charger to someone who's now, uh, helping shape the minds and hearts of, uh, of those who'll be hard charging as well?

Kyle Lamb: Well, I think, I th- I think that I would rather take the path of Miyamoto Musashi than somebody who j- just destroys everything in the end.

You know what- Hmm ... I'm saying? Like, it, I wanna be, I wanna be successful by helping people, not by tearing something down.

Travis Bader: Right.

Kyle Lamb: I've done enough destruction in my life where I got paid to do that, and it was really, really fun. But- Sure. ... I'm beyond that now, and now I can actually [01:30:00] build stuff and help people and, um- Some of it I think is reflection.

I mean, I re- I've, I reflect a lot on what I've done in the past and, you know, that's where the poetry thing came about. 'Cause some of the, my poems are, you know, that's what they're about. They're about my past or other people's past or, you know, just y- they're just kind of whatever you want it to be. But it, it allows you to tell a story and doesn't really matter, like, who it's about or, or where it's from.

It's, it's, it's just a story and that's, there's not ... You don't have to ... Some people are gonna try to take deeper meaning from it, but I, I had a poem I read to a guy and he fricking got all, started crying and everything and I'm like, "Dude."

Travis Bader: Your

Kyle Lamb: poem? He goes, "Man, that made me think of..." Yeah, one of my poems.

And, and he's like, "That made me think about this," and I'm like, "That's not even close to where I was going with that." So you just never know, like how- Yeah ... somebody's gonna take something. And it was good [01:31:00] because then he started writing poetry. His poetry, he's only written me two poems that he's let me read, and they are, they are unbelievable.

'Cause he takes, like, months to write a poem. I, I write a poem- Hm ... in like, you know, 20 minutes or whatever. And then I'll go back a month later and look at it and, you know, change it up a little bit there and, and, uh... And some of it is based on, like, what I'm reading. Like, I, I was just reading a book about, I studied Henry V a lot because of the Battle- Okay

of Agincourt. Right. And then the Battle of Shrews- Shrewsbury, where he got injured, shot in the face with an arrow, and then had to have that removed and all this stuff. And, and then going into France and the Battle of Agincourt, what happened, um, there fighting the French. So I wrote a poem about it, and it's, you know, you, you kinda have to know...

If you, if, if you didn't know about King Henry, you probably wouldn't know

You have a hard time understanding that poem.

Travis Bader: Sure.

Kyle Lamb: So my plan with these, and [01:32:00] this is what I normally do, is when I do a poem, I actually, I, I give a, like a synopsis of where it came from, what it's about. And s- when I s- when I talk about something in there, you know, what that, what that means. For example, like that poem I talked about this guy being made of glass.

Well, that was the, the, the French king. He thought he was made of glass. He was- Mm ... psycho, you know? He was like- Mm-hmm ... completely off his rocker, you know, pooping on himself and doing all this stuff. And, a- and you wonder why they lost. They had no leadership. Right. You know, whereas with Henry V, and, and I don't agree with everything Henry V did either, however, he was a good leader at Agincourt and, and some of the other times that he was asked to, to really step up and lead.

So, you know, that's how that, that's how something like that comes about. So I guess, you know, w- going to back where the original question was, I'm tr- I'm trying to finish well, and I feel like helping people is better than hurting people. Mm. When we put out that, if we put out [01:33:00] something on social media, we try to be positive even though...

You know, we just put out some, we've been putting out these little videos lately, and we've been getting a lot of really positive feedback. I've seen that. And it's hard, it's hard for my wife because she's like, "You're talking about these Marines eating crayons. That's just not nice." Dude, I got a picture of my buddy today.

He said, "I love- Eating

Travis Bader: crayons.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, and he's eating crayons, and here's what's crazy about it. He sends me this picture. I don't know if you can actually see this, but he's got a mouthful of crayons.

Now, here's what's- Yep ... crazy about that. He's in dress uniform.

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm.

Kyle Lamb: He has a purple heart, he has a bronze star with V, and he has a silver star.

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: This guy's a war hero.

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm.

Kyle Lamb: And he is, he has his mouth full of crayons. It's hilarious. So it's, you see, you know- It's

Travis Bader: 100% hilarious.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, and it's like, that's the guy, [01:34:00] that's like the guy, I want him to know, like, I appreciate Marines, and I really love...

I'm, I'm jealous of Marines because they have that esprit de corps, 'cause they got a smaller element. There's just a lot of cool- Mm-hmm ... things about Marines. They got great history. The Army's got great history too, but we're so big. Sure. But now my wife is starting to understand that some of that, that tongue in cheek humor that, that GIs use, it's, it's good, and guys appreciate that, you know?

Travis Bader: Yes.

Kyle Lamb: So, so yeah, we've been doing a lot of those little short videos lately. We got more coming. We're, we're, uh, we're gonna try to give everybody a hard time.

Travis Bader: In, in your poems, where, where are you having those released or published? 'Cause I did a quick look, and I couldn't find them anywhere.

Kyle Lamb: They, none of them have been released.

Travis Bader: Huh.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah. There you go. None of them, none of them have been released. Um, I write them, and then I just keep them for my own... I, I, I've, I'm, I've actually thought about, uh, releasing [01:35:00] some of these, but we haven't. We haven't done that yet. You wanna hear one?

Travis Bader: Yeah, 100%. Let's

Kyle Lamb: hear it. So here's one I just, here's one I just wrote on 5 July.

Okay. And it's not completely, uh, all spiffied up, but it's called The Jagged Burning Teeth. And I haven't rehearsed this, so I might screw this up a little bit.

Travis Bader: It's okay.

Kyle Lamb: The jagged burning teeth were tearing at his soul. His back was hunched, his body stiff, digging deeper in that hole. They charged from all directions, yet he knew not from whence they came.

Their growls, their barks, their tearing teeth, no m- no man on earth could tame. The claws are sharp as broken glass, ripping meat right from the bone. The man stood against the beast, shoulder to shoulder with his friends, but still alone. The deep dark abyss of fear, the waves slowly rising to suck him under.

The beasts continue their attacks, their wings like the sound [01:36:00] of some evil rolling thunder. How could God design a manner befitting the devil by himself? Or did Beelzebub have a hand at placing this killing animal on the shelf? The sigh of death cleaves and cares not whose family you belong. It cuts and ravages indiscriminately, the iron sings the deathly song.

Men have always bared their hearts to stand facing directly their beloved country's foe. They feel the passion, they feel the pain, but with bravery they meet this... But with bravery they meet death standing toe-to-toe. The man whose fame and fortune tied to that satanic machine, I promise he will go down below to visit all the souls his death has ever seen.

Archers spread their terror as they stood upon the field. Men would gladly take an arrow, but from artillery they would yield. The unknowing devastation delivered from miles and heavens above. The sickly sweet and whining whistle, the sound no soldier man would love. [01:37:00] Artillery is for cowards, no man e- n- not man enough to fight.

They sleep in beds and eat their chow, while trench-born soldiers fear the night. Go the way of evil thus, I ask the Lord in prayer. Let the enemy attack as men, I long to see them coming there. I will fight knowing well that death may come to knock. Promise me no artillery fire and I'll stand there like a rock.

When the sorcerer's hand points at you, there is no place to hide. The only way to stop the death is God standing at your side. So fear not the high explosives, death metal in the air. It is meant for y- If it is meant for you, I promise that, the beast of death in iron slang, it does not have a care.

Travis Bader: Damn, Kyle.

That's good. And you're not publishing these?

Kyle Lamb: No, no, not yet. So that one came about because I was reading about, about soldiers, and they were, they were dealing [01:38:00] with field artillery.

Travis Bader: Hmm.

Kyle Lamb: And they, like, they- Like they didn't, like they don't know where it's coming from. They don't know when death is... Like, it's not a man that they're gonna fight against.

It's just coming and zapping them like thunder and, you know, and the, you just don't know who's gonna get hit. And, uh, so that just, you know, that, that inspired me. Like I, I started out where it's kinda like it's an animal. Right, yes. But then eventually it gets to, you know, it's artillery and it scares the crap out of dudes that are out there on the battlefield, 'cause they just can't...

You can't defend against- Totally. It's a nebulous

Travis Bader: enemy.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah. You just can't. There's no way to fight Yeah, it's just a, it's, you know, and that's what soldiers have been doing for, for all these years, so. Yeah, and I've got some that are funny. I, I've, I wrote one about baggage left behind. Okay. It's kind of a, um- A

Travis Bader: double entendre?

Kyle Lamb: You wanna hear that one real quick?

Travis Bader: Sure. [01:39:00]

Kyle Lamb: I hate to, I hate to, uh, bore you with my-

Travis Bader: Hey, you're heard

Kyle Lamb: it here first. So here's, so here's what it's called. It's called Baggage Left Behind. I wrote this- Okay ... in December of '24. So I was reading, uh, The Great Divorce by CS Lewis, and in the preface- Mm ... he mentions, "You cannot take all lu- luggage with you on all of your journeys.

On one journey, even your right hand and your right eye may be among the things you have to leave behind."

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: So this is written from a soldier's perspective. "I packed my canvas bags to be loaded on the baggage train. I tried to take only what I needed, wanting not to be so vain. A warrior's life should be simple, with limited possessions in our midst, so any frivolous parts of my life were left there in the ditch.

It started out so tragically simple, march until you can die. Face the enemy with shoulders square, praying on the battlefield we would not lie. We didn't carry anything other than death and steel. For those who thought for, for those who [01:40:00] thought for glory, this war has somehow become real." My baggage is getting lighter as I trudge along this path.

With every time I swing my sword, I feel the enemy's wrath. I lost a couple fingers when I swung that hammer down. I looked at the bludgy- bloody missing digits. I'll be honest, it made me frown. I really only miss them when I try to count past eight. But as with gallows humors, I don't have to carry so much weight.

Next to be abandoned that day when the sun was high, an archer shot an arrow and I caught it with my eye. I must readily admit it burnt like Hades fire. I won't win any beauty pageants, but that's not what I desire. My mates will block the blows that come from my left side. If they don't cover my weakness, I surely will take that heavenly ride.

I don't recall the day or hour when my foot was cut in half. It looks kinda like a side of pork, making the old hardened warriors laugh. Marching isn't [01:41:00] easy for a man taking half a stride, but since my brothers like the way I fight, they make sure a mule I ride. I can still shoot a bow with accuracy and swing a sword 'til death, but next to go I lost an arm.

I can imagine the holding of your breath. It's only an arm, my poor friend. An extra is hanging in the wings. I don't lose, I didn't lose my voice box yet, so during the march I sings. Side-straddle hop is easy for a man with all his parts. I look like a little newborn colt with jerks and fits and starts.

I'm actually pretty happy since my tailor costs are half. My coats have less material. I hope that made you laugh. Standing by the cooking fire, the fighting hadn't reached our camp. A cannonball came bouncing by. That ball I tried to tramp. Zipped right by below the knee. There's no way it could be saved.

Buying shoes is twice as easy. The need for a pair is waived. So in the travels through a soldier's life, if you lose some baggage along the way, it won't be the end of the world at all. That is, if I have anything to [01:42:00] say. Get up e- get up each morning, then face the east and feel that warming sun. No matter how jacked up you are, a soldier can always have some fun.

We came into this world with nothing, now baggage stolen, baggage gone. When we stand in front of our maker, all our worldly claims will be withdrawn. Don't feel sad, for I will persevere. I have a mitten on my only hand. I can still see clearly with one good eye and on a wooden peg I stand. So as a young man when I scrawled my name and swore that lifelong pact- I've lost lots of baggage along the way, but my dignity is still intact.

Travis Bader: I like that.

Kyle Lamb: So all of those are actually from history, you know, guys losing arms or whatever, but the, like, the guy kicking the cannonball, that's from a book, Company H, which is a story about the Civil War, and the guy that, that wrote it, he, he's from, like, 30 miles from where we live here. He, of course he's dead, but guys would see a cannonball bouncing through and they thought, "Oh, I'm gonna kick [01:43:00] that."

Well, it's a cannonball.

Travis Bader: Right.

Kyle Lamb: They go to kick it and it'd take their leg right off. They'd try to grab it and it'd take both hands off, you know? So- Mm-hmm ... it's, uh... Anyway, that one I wrote for fun, 'cause it's, you know, it's, it's that guy. He's all jacked up, but he just keeps on- ... you know, he just keeps on going, so.

Travis Bader: Huh. That's, um, I, I'm trying to remember the poet's name. I think they call him the Bard of the North, but it kind of reminds me of him. He wrote The, The Quitter, and the, um, I think it was a British fellow who, who came over to the Yukon and, uh, uh, his name slips me, but it's a similar- Yeah ... kind of a, uh, I think you call it iambic pentameter.

Yeah, yeah. Where-

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, and Patton wrote a lot of stuff too. I've got a book of poems that- Oh, did

Travis Bader: he? ...

Kyle Lamb: my buddy sent me that were wr- written by Patton, and I'm not a big fan of Patton. He, he just was kind of disappointing in some of the stuff he did, but his poetry is pretty dark, and my, my poetry's pretty dark, so we get a, we, we have that in common there.

I [01:44:00] wrote, uh, I wrote one about World War II and the paratroopers and everything, and I read it to my buddies that we all jumped into, to, uh, we jumped into Normandy on the 80th anniversary together. Hmm. And I read that poem to them there before we jumped, and one guy, one of my buddies who had been my OTC commander, or OTC, uh, instructor, he's like, "Now, who wrote that?"

And I said, "Um, I wrote that." And he's like, "You're kidding me." So then he wanted that poem. And I'm like, "Well, that's pretty cool that he wants a copy of that." So anyway, yeah, it's fun. It's something just, it's just, you know, it's something different to do, but it's, it's, uh, if it lets you relieve, get something out of your head onto paper and then you kind of forget about it, then it's a positive, a positive thing, you know?

It's kind of, just kind of like making knives or whatever. You know how you get in that focus- Mm-hmm ... when you're making a knife and- Yeah ... you're not thinking about anything but that, so.

Travis Bader: That's right. Well, it's also a bit of a window into your mind and into the soul, and it's, um, [01:45:00] you know, like they say, uh, like your books you put out, this is a definite window into you, and the, the Bible is a mirror, or can be a mirror, some people will say.

Yeah. And you, you're gonna read out of it what you want to see and take out of it what you want to take and, um- I, I think it's an important thing to do because it's, um, f- 'cause your mission in this, y- like you were saying before, just one person really. It's just one person has to get it.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah.

Travis Bader: And if, and if everyone reads the same thing and sees it in the same light and in the same way, there's only the certain people that are gonna...

it's gonna speak to. When it mirrors you, I think you're gonna all of a sudden you've got a following on your own, you've got your own background, you've got your own history and- Yeah.

Kyle Lamb: Yep ...

Travis Bader: your own Kyle-isms. I, I don't know. I, I think, uh, I, I think it's brave. I think it's brave to put yourself out there the way that you are.

Kyle Lamb: Or stupid, one of the two. There's a fine line between bravery and stupidity. [01:46:00]

Travis Bader: I... Sure, I've heard that. Um, I don't know. I, I, I, I'll, I'll stick with brave. You know, you mentioned something before as well about, um, on your reflection about, uh, you know, you, you go out, you gotta be on when you're doing the public thing, right?

The- there's an expectation of what people wanna see, and then you come home. What would the public think seeing private Kyle, Kyle in private? Um, but I guess you're getting a, a reflect- a, a bit of a glimpse into that through the, uh- Yeah, I don't- ... through the books and the poetry. I,

Kyle Lamb: I, I would... I, I disagree with that.

I, I... They don't, even in my writing, they don't get to see- Not even

Travis Bader: close? ...

Kyle Lamb: the honesty. Okay. That's the thing, like- When I c- when i- it, it's hard. When I come back from teaching a class, like, you're in charge. Mm-hmm. You're the guy. They're there for you, and you're doing this, and you're up there, and you're doing it, and you come home, and it's like, phew, you come down from that.

And it's not, sometimes it's not [01:47:00] good. Mm. It can be like, I can be in a grumpy mood because I've been eating crappy food at a, you know, I've been staying in a hotel and eating crappy food. Now I'm home, and I'm tired, and, and I've been having to be on the whole time, and now it's like- Mm ... I just wanna ch- I just, I just wanna sl- as my buddy Johnny Dog would say, I just wanna sit there and stare at a rock.

Mm. And, you know, just ... So I would say sometimes the ... I have actually given some of my worst in one of my books, The Leadership in the Shadows, but then luckily I have my wife that saved me from myself, and she took five chapters, and she red X'd the entire chapter and said- Mm ... "You were mad when you wrote this.

Rewrite those chapters. Don't look at them. Just rewrite them. Don't, don't- Mm ... don't use any of that as a reference. Just rewrite that chapter." And I wrote them, and they are so much better now than they were when I did it when I was in that, kind of that funk, you know?

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: But I think you have to get ... You know, and I [01:48:00] think part of it, I do, you know, enlighten people to some of that in here that we all have those struggles, so- Sure

I wouldn't say it's not honest. It's, it's pretty honest, but it's, it's the darker, the darker sides I'm not ... I mean, I try to not expose that. I'd like to not expose that to anybody. And-

Travis Bader: Mm ...

Kyle Lamb: that's part of the reason I write poetry, because I can be as dark as I want-

Travis Bader: It- ...

Kyle Lamb: with poetry ... and it's

Travis Bader: in, it's just poetry, right?

Kyle Lamb: Yeah. And that's, that's how it actually started. I had a really bad experience, and I made it through it, and, uh, I wrote notes about what happened, and I was like, I just don't ever want this to happen again. And that's the very first ... I've wrote some, I've done some scribbly poems as a kid or whatever, you know, just to be funny, but I wrote that poem, and that one is hard.

That's hard still for me to read that one, and I've let some people read it, or and I've, I've read it to some [01:49:00] people just because they might be in that same, um- They might be in that same funk, and I want them to understand that I was in that funk and now I'm past that. Um, one night my buddy goes, "Yeah, I, I w- I was talking to my buddy about up at hunting camp, and he said you read a couple poems."

And, uh, and he said, "A couple of those soldiers said it was... It kinda tore them up, you know?" Or Marines they were. And I said, "Yeah." And he goes... I said, "You wanna hear some?" And he goes, "Yeah." So we, there's the four of us, we all served together, and we get to our hotel, and we sit down at a table there in the lobby, and they get some brown liquor, and I get a glass of water.

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm.

Kyle Lamb: And I read that poem to them, and all three of those guys were crying.

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: And I was like... And Really, that opened up like a new chapter with my friendship with those three guys. And one of them, w- we already were at that point, [01:50:00] but the other two it really... Like, I realized, like, they, they are perceived as not having any of those struggles when they are having the exact same struggles I'm having.

Travis Bader: Right.

Kyle Lamb: And now we can honestly talk about that more openly because now they all know we're on the same sheet of music. So-

Travis Bader: So why are you holding, why are you holding those poems back? Like,

Kyle Lamb: for me- It's not ready. It's just, it's just not ready yet. I mean, it's Dude, there's some dark stuff, bro.

Travis Bader: I get it. But it's- I think we all have dark thoughts, though.

I think we,

Kyle Lamb: uh- Yeah. Well, we do. You know, and some of it is... So I wrote one about the darkness, the, the, the light. Mm. So putting the light on something, and we always... The, the moral of the... Not the moral. The gist of the poem is, like, when I was in the military, we were always putting a light on the evil. We were putting the light on these [01:51:00] people, and we're...

And literally we're putting a light on them. Mm-hmm. And we're, we're lighting them up so that either we can, you know, shoot or no shoot or, you know, whatever.

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm.

Kyle Lamb: But be- but in the darkness, the evil was truly hiding, which was us. Like, we're the evil- Mm-hmm ... that's out there doing this, because some stuff we did was not good, you know?

And when I, after I wrote that, you know, my wife, she, I told her that poem, and she's like, "You know, you did exactly what your country asked you to do." You know, and that's the thing. Th- that's true. That's absolutely true, but that still doesn't mean that I don't wanna reflect on it and think, like, "If I was gonna do that again, would I do things the same way that I did them the first time?"

You know?

Travis Bader: You, you can never step in the same stream twice. Yeah.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, you can't.

Travis Bader: You're not the same man. You're not the same stream. It's not... But Nietzsche would have something to say about that, too, and the construct of good and evil.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah.

Travis Bader: It's, uh, [01:52:00] um... And kinda what, what we put on it. I-

Kyle Lamb: Well, and, and, and what, like, with, with what he would say, and Jordan Peterson would say is you can't have...

You can't be a good person unless you have the ability to be evil.

Travis Bader: That's right.

Kyle Lamb: I believe in that 110%. That, that's right. Because if you're just some little douchebag that- You're just weak ... is, like, pretending... Yeah, you're weak. You can't do anything. You know, the Bible says, um, "The meek shall inherit the earth."

Meek and weak are not the same word.

Travis Bader: Two different words, yeah. Yeah,

Kyle Lamb: and to me, meek is somebody that, that carries a sword and knows how to use it, but they decided to keep it in the scabbard. But watch out- Mm ... when they actually pull that joker out and get, you know- ... get busy. So yeah, someday, someday... My wife has been talking to me about trying to, to do, to get some of these out, um- I've written a b- I've, I've written a, a, a bunch of poetry, and it's, it's, uh, it's fun.

It's... Some are fun, some are... You know, the ones I just [01:53:00] read you, they're kinda fun. Sure. They're kinda fun, fun poems, you know?

Travis Bader: You know, it's... And they're not all gonna be bangers for one person, but I'm sure they're gonna be... The different ones will speak to different people in different ways. I think if I was writing poetry like that, uh, there would be a fear of, uh, opening up too much, and having people view in a little too deeply.

Yeah. Um, and the wrong people, not necessarily the right people, getting in front of them. Um, even with this podcast here, uh, a, a lot of times I... You're probably the same way, but I'm, I'm constrained. I hold things back. Yeah. There's a lot of stories, there's a lot of things I could share and tell, but you don't, because you want to, uh, juggle the, um, uh, the possible impact that it might have and, uh, and, and maybe if it's someone who's just reconciling with yourself.

Kyle Lamb: I'm trying to find one that w- that's kind of... I wrote one [01:54:00] one day just f- um... Oh, my goodness, if I can find it here.

Travis Bader: I'd love

Kyle Lamb: to hear it- Oh, here we go ...

Travis Bader: regardless.

Kyle Lamb: Here we go. I just found it. Okay. All right. So I was joking with him and I said... He goes, "Well, have you written any limericks?"

Travis Bader: I was gonna say, those are the only poems I've ever written myself, and they're not appropriate.

Kyle Lamb: So this is the limerick that I wrote. The darkest time is in the night, but it's the day that brings me fright. They're now clear and bring me fear, please let the blackness take my sight.

Travis Bader: Hmm. I like that one.

Kyle Lamb: That's a tough one. If you really start to- Yeah ... to tear that apart, the darkest time is in the night, but it's the day that brings me fright.

That's true.

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm.

Kyle Lamb: They're now clear and bring me fear, please let the blackness take my sight.

Travis Bader: [01:55:00] Mm-hmm.

Kyle Lamb: And you can take that however you wanna take it. He said, he goes, "It's really good, but I think they're supposed to make you laugh." He goes, "That's the darkest- He goes, "That's the darkest fricking limerick I've ever read."

Travis Bader: No, that... And how long did that one take you to, to write? Because, uh-

Kyle Lamb: Probably about three weeks.

Travis Bader: Yeah. Okay. I'd, I'd say so. That's, uh, th- there's a lot packed into a very small space on that one.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah. There's... I, I'm gonna read you... So I'm gonna read you a, not a poem, but I'm gonna read you the first page of a book, 'cause you always, you know, as a writer, you wanna think, like, what's the...

how do... you know, like, what's something that captures people?

Travis Bader: Hmm.

Kyle Lamb: This is the first... I'm gonna tell you what book it is. It's Lonesome Dove.

Travis Bader: Okay.

Kyle Lamb: You familiar with that?

Travis Bader: No.

Kyle Lamb: It's a Western.

Travis Bader: I, I've heard of them, but I haven't read it.

Kyle Lamb: So it's Augustus, [01:56:00] Augustus McCrae and, and Captain Call, and they're both former Rangers.

Okay. And Rangers like, like Texas Rangers. Yeah. So this is the first sentence, sentence in that book. "When Augustus came out on the porch, the blue pigs were eating a rattlesnake. Not a very big one."

Isn't that a great... Like, that's one line. That's a good way to start

Travis Bader: it, eh?

Kyle Lamb: Like, y- like, that's... And he could've stopped right there. He had me. I was like, that's a great- Yeah ... you know. That's just a great- But- ... a great read there. So-

Travis Bader: Yeah, it just paint, paints a picture. It sets an expectation. It conveys a lot of information, very short.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah. Okay. So we... That's one of the things, um... I don't know if we talked about this on the last podcast or not, but I have never read... No, let me rephrase that. I've read one Stephen King book. Mm. And it's his book called On Writing.

Travis Bader: Oh, okay.

Kyle Lamb: And I got a lot out of that. I've never read any of his [01:57:00] other stuff.

I just don't think I would like it. It's, it's way too dark for... I mean- I got enough dark stuff. I don't need to add to that. Sure. You know?

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm.

Kyle Lamb: But one of the things he said in that book was that your manuscript, when you go through it the first time, you know, to- your first scrub of it, you should try to take 10 to 20% out of that.

And I was like, "No, man, that's your book. Like, that's your book. You don't wanna get... Like, you put it in there. You don't wanna take... You just don't wanna take it away." Well, you take 10 to 20% out that doesn't need to be there, you clarify your writing by getting rid of a lot of adjectives, and you still end up with a book that's 432 pages long.

You know what I'm saying? Like, there- Yeah ... this, this has been refined down and down and down and down to where [01:58:00] it's, it's... I'm trying to say, just say what needs to be said and not all the other, like, a lot of fluffy stuff there, you know?

Travis Bader: Well, like your limerick there, there's a lot that can be said in short words, and the mind will fill in the blanks.

And then when it's spoon-fed to a person, it gets a little, um, pedantic. Yeah. Yeah. When it's short, it's, uh, uh, it, it allows for interpretation, just like if somebody looking at art or listening to one of your poems- Yeah ... or reading one of your poems.

Kyle Lamb: Have you ever heard of the Hemingway App?

Travis Bader: No. I know Hemingway, but not the Hemingway App

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, so I'm not a...

I would, I would say I'm probably not a huge Ernest Hemingway fan. I'm just not. I, I- Sure ... have read, not all of his stuff, but m- most of his stuff.

Travis Bader: I like the idea of fishing through the sawtooths in a romantic sort of way, uh, w- like- Yeah ... Hemingway did. But aside from that, the, uh-

Kyle Lamb: Well, I think- ... uh, the other side

I mean, I, I think maybe the reason I, I struggle with Hemingway is because of his personal life versus- Mm-hmm ... his, he, [01:59:00] the writing. But w- whatever. There's an app called the Hemingway App, and there's another app- Okay ... called Scrivener. So I write on Scrivener- Okay ... because Scrivener allows me to quickly move stuff, and it's, it's just a very good writing app.

And then when you get to a certain point, we have to go to Word because Word allows us to, uh, make changes, accept changes, and do all that stuff. So there's kind of a process that I follow. I go from Scrivener, once it's to a certain point and I'm gonna start doing the editing process with my wife, then it goes to Word, and then we start that back and forth, um, with the Word document until we- Hmm

get it right, and then it's accepted, and then it moves into another stack. Then it goes to the actual editor, who's a former, uh, command sergeant major, Kevin Dorsch, and he does the editing work. So this app called the Hemingway App, if you, if you get that app, what's really cool about it is you just take your writing and you drop it into the Hemingway App and it'll tell you, it, it will [02:00:00] grade your writing.

Now- Oh, okay ... it doesn't give you l- like an A plus, B minus. It doesn't do anything like that. What it does is it'll say, "Too many adjectives," and it'll, and it'll highlight all the adjectives. And then you go- Oh ... through and you start, like, "What happens if I take... I've got 20 adjectives here. What if I take 15 of those out?"

Travis Bader: Hmm.

Kyle Lamb: Man, your writing becomes better.

Travis Bader: Interesting.

Kyle Lamb: And most... So it's, it's an, it's a, it's an interesting way to... And I don't use it, like, I don't drop everything in there to see how I'm writing, but I, I've done a lot of that because I'll write something, I'm like, "Well, how is, how am I doing?"

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm.

Kyle Lamb: And I'll drop it in there.

Oh, and then it'll also tell you what grade level you're writing on. So-

Travis Bader: Interesting.

Kyle Lamb: So what, what-

Travis Bader: What grade level does a good l- a writer want to write at?

Kyle Lamb: Um, it depends on who your customer is.

Travis Bader: Okay.

Kyle Lamb: So for me, I would say as a, as a writer trying to reach military and law enforcement [02:01:00] people, I probably wanna write on a sixth grade or below level.

And I, generally do. Like, I just generally... And that's not, that's not a mean thing to say.

Travis Bader: No,

Kyle Lamb: I

Travis Bader: get it. That's,

Kyle Lamb: that's reading that every person that has- Keep it

Travis Bader: simple ...

Kyle Lamb: an eighth grade education should be able to read this book. And now there are some big words in here they might have to, you know, they might have to look up.

But... Well, seriously, you know, you read something like a Jordan Peterson book, you're gonna be like, "What in the heck is he talking about?" Or maybe- Yeah ... a Winston, a Winston Churchill book because he's using some English words that we may not use as much anymore. Um- Yeah,

Travis Bader: they're quite loquacious.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Or a, a coquette, you know, like if you read- Yeah, sure ... yeah, if you read something w- written by Washington Irving, you're gonna be looking in the dictionary all day long. And it's awesome writing, like, it's spectacular writing. It actually makes you a better writer because now you can- Mm ... the way that you do descriptions is gonna be a little bit better.

But, but when I put it in there and I see that [02:02:00] I'm writing at a fifth grade level, sixth grade level, fourth grade level, whatever, at first that kinda bothered me. And then I took- Ah ... a speech that President Obama gave.

Travis Bader: Hmm.

Kyle Lamb: And I dropped it in there.

Travis Bader: I know where this is going.

Kyle Lamb: And he's speaking at, like, level 13.

Travis Bader: Okay.

Kyle Lamb: So who's he communicating with, bro? Like r- who's he trying to talk to? 'Cause he ain't talking to me. Yeah. He ain't talking to anybody that, that I served with in the military. He's not talking to any of the ranchers in South Dakota or the farmers in Wisconsin. Who's he talking to? 'Cause he's, he, he's, he's, he's, he's-

Travis Bader: Talking to himself.

I mean, the, there's a part of that that intellectuals like to be heard and they like to, um, impress others with their, uh, their vocabulary and verbiage and-

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, so you see my point there. My point is- Yeah ... he, he was sp- he was speaking at a, a, [02:03:00] a, a college level.

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm.

Kyle Lamb: And when I just went through that speech, I'm like, "I don't even know what this word means."

So, so if I'm- Hmm ... out there getting, getting spoken to, you're not gonna have a dictionary and be going through a dictionary while you're listening to a speech. Right. Yeah. When you're reading a book you might, because there's gonna be books, certain books that you're gonna read that you're gonna have to use a dictionary just 'cause that's the way it is.

Um, but when you read a book like, uh, say a Jack Carr thriller or- Hmm ... a Jason Casper thriller- You probably don't have to get out a dictionary. Now, you may wanna get on the internet 'cause you wanna find out what gun or watch- Sure ... or car or whatever they're talking about. Sure. But, but their English is clear and it's written so that, that they'll understand.

Now, I've had some people that are, that, that they wanna use big words, and I tell you what's really hilarious, I, I know a lot of words.

Travis Bader: [02:04:00] Sure.

Kyle Lamb: And I've looked up a lot of those words. In more than one language. Yeah. And I, I've called out some of these guys, I'm like, "What does that mean? What does that word mean?"

And they look at me, they're like...

Travis Bader: I don't know.

Kyle Lamb: Uh, well, oh, so you just used a word you don't even know what it means.

Travis Bader: Uh-huh.

Kyle Lamb: You know, like us- you us- you u- you use the word pedantic.

Travis Bader: Right.

Kyle Lamb: So what does that mean to you?

Travis Bader: Uh, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Okay. It's, um, talking down to somebody, you're telling them something in a repetitive-

Kyle Lamb: So does that f- come from the word pedagogy?

I don't know. Uh- I'm just asking.

Travis Bader: No, I, the, what's the etymology of it? I don't know. Maybe. That'd be an interesting one to look up. There you go. There's your etymology.

Kyle Lamb: Okay. So let's look, let's look this up. 'Cause this is, sometime this is fun.

Travis Bader: Yeah. Do you ever use AI? I

Kyle Lamb: try not to.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

Kyle Lamb: Because AI is usually wrong.

It depends what you're re- you're researching. If you wanna research, like, the weight of something or, [02:05:00] um... I'm trying to think. Like- Something maybe from, from modern history. Mm. But I think if you get into like... I, I've, I have used it to try to research some stuff, and I've gotten back stuff that's so crazy that I...

that it's like, okay, I can't use it for... Like, I can't use it for, for Bible stuff because it's, it'll give me completely wrong stuff.

Travis Bader: Yeah. It's... What's interesting on the Bible stuff, it's, uh, and, and maybe it's updated and it's more advanced now, but it's, uh, it's biased. It's- Sure ... it's very... You got it?

Kyle Lamb: I got it.

Travis Bader: Okay.

Kyle Lamb: So, so remember what my question was, is it, is it, is it tied to pedagogy? Pe-

Travis Bader: right.

Kyle Lamb: How would you say that? The act of

Travis Bader: teaching and-

Kyle Lamb: Right ... so,

Travis Bader: relaying information.

Kyle Lamb: Pedant, schoolmaster, person who, uh, overrates book learning.

Travis Bader: Okay.

Kyle Lamb: Uh, pedant, [02:06:00] of obscure origin. The first, uh, is presumably that of pedagogy, to which- Ah

has been added the preposition ending anti or ant Uh, pedant direct from it, hence pedantic So that's why I ask you that. Like- Yeah ... so, so when you said it's like this, d- d- d- d- d-, what that means- Yeah ... to me is, like when you're teaching, it's d- d- d- d- d- d-. It is- Yeah ... 'cause it's like you do it over and over and over and over and over and over, right?

Right. That's how

you teach. So when I heard that word, like, eh, my kids taught me this. Like the, like you hear a word, like what's the root word, and then- Mm-hmm ... how you can get back to it, and right there, pedantic goes back to pedant. I never heard the word pedant. Right. And then, uh, pedagogy, which is obviously, you know, talking about- Yeah

teachers as well. Um, just isn't that interesting?

Travis Bader: Yeah. Okay, and y- and you nailed it right on the [02:07:00] head, too, of, uh, where it came from. Okay, what about loquacious? Where does loquacious come from?

Kyle Lamb: We're about to find out.

Travis Bader: Call me out on the words

Kyle Lamb: I'm using. People are gonna be like, "What are we..." What I should probably a- ask you first is-

Travis Bader: What do I think it is?

Kyle Lamb: How do you spell it? Let me see. L-O-C-O-U, right?

Travis Bader: Is it L-O-C or is it L-O... I guess loco, but I thought it was L-O-Q-U. Loquacious, but-

Kyle Lamb: See, that's why you're, that's why you're Canadian and I'm American. Let's see. Yeah,

Travis Bader: we use the metric system for our spelling.

Kyle Lamb: I actually won the spelling bee when I was a kid, but I give up after that.

L-O- Q-U-A-C-I-O-U-S Okay, loquacious. Talking much.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

Kyle Lamb: So it's Latin. Okay. Lo- loquaci, loquatics, loqui. See locution and loquacious. See locacity, [02:08:00] or however you say that. Locacity, something like that. Okay. Loquacious. So it's Latin- Huh

Travis Bader: I did a, uh, I, I did see Jordan Peterson live. He was at an event, and I think it was Sam Harris that he was talking with. And, uh, I left halfway through. I mean, it was an interesting thing, but you couldn't follow these people. They were, um... It was just a word salad at a certain point. It was each one- Yeah

trying to impress the other side back, and it was just like... I, I had free tickets to it. I was thankful for the tickets, but the, I, I just wasn't following it.

Kyle Lamb: So, so part of that is, this is my opinion on that, if you listen to Jordan Peterson a bunch, you're gonna start to understand all of... You'll, you'll understand the 20 words that he uses over and over and over and over.

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: Or maybe it's 50 words or whatever. Sure. So you've gotta learn 50 different words to listen to Jordan Peterson speak and understand what he's talking about.

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: Every writer, [02:09:00] I think, does the same thing. It's just that, like, like say, um, like Teddy Roosevelt for example. So Teddy Roosevelt, obviously one of our presidents, but he was also a, a great writer, but his writing was made for guys like us.

It wasn't made for- Mm. It just wasn't made for s- anybody that was real highfalutin, you know? Um, one of the words that he, that he preferred to use was, um Oh, I gotta think of it now. When a river turns and it leaves that sediment, um-

Travis Bader: The, the silt? The, um-

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, like the silt. It's, um, v- uh, alluvial

Travis Bader: Alluvial, yes.

Yeah. The

Kyle Lamb: alluvial plains. So all- alluvial plain or alluvium is what that is called. Right. So, like, in my book, I put that in there because I wanted- That's a, that is a word I give credit to for

Travis Bader: T-

Kyle Lamb: Teddy [02:10:00] Roosevelt. Interesting. And once you start reading his books, you're gonna see that, that word will be in every book he's written, I promise you that.

And that's like- You know what? ... not a word, it's, it's not a word that really, you know, it fits with what he's writing about, 'cause he's gonna put it, if they're talking about a stream, "Well, we went down there to the, we're in the alluvium on the cor- you know, the corner of this stream"- Mm ... or whatever, the alluvium soil or- But no one talks like that.

Not really, no. You know? Yeah. So anyway, I just, I, I think it's, I, I, I just- I, I was reading a book by a, a guy, I can't remember the guy's name, but he talked about, you know, the, the history of the English language. And what's really interesting about that is where the words come from. So are they Saxon? Are they Latinate?

And that's one thing- Hmm ... I didn't understand either. But then when you start to look at words, if, if you have two words... So, uh, so let's talk about cow. Is cow Saxon or is it Latinate?

Travis Bader: Uh, I'm gonna go [02:11:00] Saxon, and I'm just guessing here.

Kyle Lamb: Well, y- okay, because what is the other word for cow? Bovine.

Travis Bader: I... Right, yeah.

Kyle Lamb: See what I mean? Like, it totally makes sense. Like, it's, it's Latinate is bovine. Yeah, yeah. Equine would be horse in Latin. Yeah. Not in Latin, but Latinate. So the, the- Yeah ... the root of the word equine is Latin, whereas horse is Saxon.

Travis Bader: Right. Servant,

Kyle Lamb: bovid.

Travis Bader: So you can

Kyle Lamb: start... Right. Yeah. And, and, a- and almost every word that's in the English language has a Saxon word and a Latinate word- Hmm

for the same meaning.

Travis Bader: Which- Interesting. I never, never once thought about that.

Kyle Lamb: It's really, to me, it's really intriguing though. Yeah. It really is, because it's our history. It's the... You know, if you've, if you read, uh, there's a four-book series by Churchill called The History of the English-Speaking Peoples.

Travis Bader: Okay.

Kyle Lamb: And it seems like it would be tough to read, 'cause each book is, like, this thick. Hmm. But it's a, just a breeze [02:12:00] to read because it's, it's all of our history, and whether it's your history, American history, English history, it's the history of English-speaking peoples.

Travis Bader: Hmm.

Kyle Lamb: So it's every, it's all of us-

'cause we speak English. So it's, it's-

Travis Bader: And it's, I, I, I think that's, it's powerful in a sense that the more you're able to articulate something or put words on something, uh, the more power that you have over that thing. Uh, if there's, let's say something you're afraid of, and it's nebulous, and you can't touch it, and there's- Yeah

it's out there. But the second you say, "Oh, I know what that is, and I can put my finger on it," all of a sudden I can start defining it. I put a word on it. I can, I can examine that, and I can say, "I, I know solutions for this. I know ways to kind of, uh, quell my fear and to, uh, because I know what that is." And to me, that, that's the, um, that's why I like to learn things, and I like to- Yeah

to learn the etymology of [02:13:00] things and the words behind it because without that, I'm just, I'll, I'll feel something or... And you're also missing out on so much in life if you can't have a word for that.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, and I think if you look at, at, uh, my wife and I were laughing about this this weekend. We were, we were flying, and I said, "I think Shakespeare come up with that."

And she's like, "What?" I said, "Yeah, like alligator. He come up with alligator." She's like, "Well ..." Did he? So we looked... Yeah. He, the, the stuff that that bro came up with, it's, it's crazy, the words- ... that he made up, like alligator. You know what I'm saying? Hmm. Like, we use- Mm-hmm ... that com- it's just a common word now.

Travis Bader: And- It's an alligator, yeah ...

Kyle Lamb: and there's, there's, I don't know if it's 100 different things, but it's, it's a lot that he came up with phrases that came from... It, it's, it's, it's just really intriguing that a writer, he was nothing but a writer dude. He just told stories. And- Hmm ... [02:14:00] and now everybody uses the, the words that that writer made up.

Travis Bader: Without even knowing it.

Kyle Lamb: Oh, no, well, oh yeah, we do it without even knowing it.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

Kyle Lamb: But if, but if you do a, if you do a quick, um... I'm gonna give you a couple 'cause then you'll, you'll, you'll understand exactly. So here's just a few of them. Break the ice, wild goose chase.

Travis Bader: Those are Shakespeare?

Kyle Lamb: Heart... Yeah.

Heart of gold. Um- In a pickle, green-eyed monster, bedazzled, lonely, eyeball, swagger

Travis Bader: Lonely

Kyle Lamb: Lonely, being without companions or isolated from-

Travis Bader: Yeah ...

Kyle Lamb: Coriolanus was the, in that one. Midsummer's Night, he used the term eyeball, the sphere of the eye. Okay. Swagger, to walk or behave in an arrogant way, from A Midsummer's Night's Dream.

Travis Bader: I would have [02:15:00] not pinned those on Shakespeare.

Kyle Lamb: I just think it's, it's, it's crazy. Um, we've seen better days, too much of a good thing, neither rhyme nor reason, I have not slept one wink.

Travis Bader: Hmm.

Kyle Lamb: Cruel to be kind, the clothes make a man. Um, it's Greek to me.

Anyway, it's It's, I, I just think it's really intriguing

Travis Bader: You know, I was asked to be on a podcast a few weeks ago, and it was, uh, the podcast is called The Collective. Uh, Sean Taylor and Chance Burles, and Sean's ex- uh JTF2, and Chance is a, um, a sapper. And the two of them, they talk about different things, and they've done a lot.

They've done a lot of podcasts, and the topic was, uh, guilt [02:16:00] and feeling guilty. And I said, "Well, what do you mean? You wanna talk about guilt?" Like, and they just wanted to expand on what that looks like, and it's like, "You know, when you're out and s- people feel guilty that they're not out doing something or they feel guilty that..."

And I said, "Well, hold on a second. Like, let's explain this. Explain it to me a bit more because to me, guilty is like you're guilty, right? You've done something wrong, and you're guilty." And anyways, through the process of this podcast, we learned that the word that I associated with guilt affects how I deal with guilt.

I said, "I don't know if I've actually felt guilt." Like if some- if I do something, I'm I, I'm slow to, uh, process emotion. Like I- Yeah ... compartmentalize. I, I don't get excited in the moment. I'll be happy. I'll be excited afterwards. There's plenty of time for that. Yeah. I'm slow to process, and then I'm fast to problem solve.

So there's this whole delay buffer where other people [02:17:00] apparently feel guilt, and I don't know if it's, I don't know if it's just a wiring thing, but to me, I think it's because I've always associated guilty with a certain word, and maybe I've, I've filled different, uh, emotions and feelings with different words or something.

But I've never felt guilty apparently, uh, in the sense that they were talking about it, and that, I think, comes down to how we use words.

Kyle Lamb: That's really interesting, yeah.

Travis Bader: Yeah. Well, either that or maybe I'm just a little, little different, but o- one or the other. Um, but I, I was having a hard time trying to understand what they meant by that feeling.

Like if I do something wrong, I make amends and I atone for it. If I've, uh, I don't have the feeling of guilt. Do you feel guilt?

Kyle Lamb: I think I do.

Travis Bader: Okay.

Kyle Lamb: But I think I, I, I, yeah, I probably might put that in a different terminology as well.

Travis Bader: Hmm.

Kyle Lamb: I don't know. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, y- now you're gonna [02:18:00] make me think about this for a while.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to, I might have to get back with you on that one.

Travis Bader: O- okay, sure. Yeah. And, and that was one that's, 'cause one of the people, 'cause they have people that can chime in on this podcast, they can write something in, and they said, "Well, what about psychopathy? I mean, like, maybe there's, um, s- or sociopathy or whatever is, is that a part of maybe why you're not feeling guilt?"

I'm like, "No. No, I don't think so because I care about people and I care about things and-" And all the rest, but compartmentalization and, you know, even when people talk about things like psychopathy or sociopathy, uh, it's got a negative connotation towards it, whereas a tier one operator would be well-served to be able to process emotions differently.

Same with a judge or a, uh, surgeon. Yeah. I mean, if they're breaking down after every, uh, every lost patient or every person they're having to put behind bars, then, um, uh, maybe they wouldn't be

Kyle Lamb: too good at their role. But I also, I [02:19:00] also think that training has a large, ha- plays a large part in that.

Travis Bader: Okay.

Kyle Lamb: You know, like for, for the guys you're talking about, you know, those guys, they have, they've trained and trained and trained and trained and trained and trained to where it becomes they're, they're just repeating a process.

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: Now that process involves instead of shooting a paper target, they're shooting a person.

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: Okay, yeah, that's a jump. It definitely is, but it's an easier jump for them than it is for somebody that's never trained to shoot a target, now all of a sudden they're shooting a person.

Travis Bader: Right.

Kyle Lamb: So I think that, you know... Yeah, I hope we're not all psycho.

Travis Bader: Well, I don't know. I don't think it's a bad thing, honestly.

I think criminal psychopathy is a bad thing. Uh, but I, but I think the way that people process emotions, you need different, you need the people that really feel because they're the ones that are gonna be able to be the canary in the cage when things are going wrong, and they're the ones who are gonna be able to [02:20:00] identify those who can't help themselves and need help in a, in a split second.

And you need those people who can, uh, make pragmatic, analytical decisions in the moment as well, without being overwhelmed by all that feeling. I, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but...

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, but I wouldn't call that psycho.

Travis Bader: No, but I think a lot of people do. I, and, and I-

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, I think they're, I think they're wrong.

I think they're completely wrong. I think it's called being professional. You're pro- Mm ... you're a professional in, in that environment.

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: That's what's required of a professional, is to act a certain way. Now, that doesn't mean at the end of the day that a cop doesn't go home and cry- Sure ... or feel sad or have emotion.

If that- Mm ... you know, if a cop or a military guy just, like, never, ever feels anything, then they probably got a problem. But- I agree ... if, if you- You know, if you go to where an IED has just been blowing up and you see a bunch of [02:21:00] women and children that are, that are in bad shape-

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm ...

Kyle Lamb: if that doesn't eventually, like, bother you or- Then there's something wrong

create emotion, I think there might be something a little twisted, you know- I agree ... in your brain. And I would also say, you know, guys will say, "Well, you know, oh, this guy probably tortured animals as a kid." Well, there's one thing to torture animals as a kid. There's another thing that if you keep torturing animals when you're, you know, 25 years old-

Travis Bader: Hmm

Kyle Lamb: then I think, you know, when kids have a curiosity, they wanna, they're, they're gonna do something, 'cause they just wanna see, like, what the outcome is. Right. I don't know that they're going- They might not

Travis Bader: fully ex- understand the-

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, they're, they're- ... consequence ... they may or may not be malicious. But if- Hmm

you're, you know, 30 years old and you're malicious about how you treat an animal, then that's, you know, that's a problem. I think that, um... And I think it's difference between... I'm not a psychologist obviously, but I think it's, it's, it, it kinda has to be different between men and women. Men need to [02:22:00] act, men don't need to act a certain way, they're built to act a certain way.

Travis Bader: Right.

Kyle Lamb: And I think, you know, you talk about your, your teacher there that, that let you set up your chemistry set. Obviously that was... Was that a man?

Travis Bader: Yes, it was.

Kyle Lamb: And-

Travis Bader: It sure was. And when I was- It was my first male teacher ...

Kyle Lamb: when I was a kid, I had a teacher that was Mr. Kaetinger, or... Oh, Mr. Kaetinger. I had Mrs.

Kaetinger. She was my favorite teacher ever. Mr.- Yeah ... Kinder was a male teacher- Okay ... and he taught English. Uh, he, he did, um, public speaking. And I just, I loved this guy. He... Like, I was gonna be this hillbilly in this show- ... and I'm like, "Well, it'd be better if you had, like, a black powder rifle," 'cause that's what that guy would carry.

And he goes, "Well, if you can get a black powder rifle, bring it in here and we'll use it in the show." So I brought my black powder rifle- Amazing ... in school and did, I was the hillbilly in this whatever, you know? So we had this kid in- [02:23:00] Amazing ... we had a kid in our class that he, he had to, he had to be in this class, and he was always a little dirty because he rode a motorcycle all the time, like a dirt bike.

Hmm. So he always had kinda dirty fingers, 'cause he, you know, we all did. We were all farm kids. But he was just- Hmm ... a little bit extra dirty. A little extra. A little extra greasy. And he didn't really talk to anybody, and he's telling Mr. Kinder, he's like... Mr. Kinder goes, "Well, do a speech, whatever you wanna speak about."

And he goes, "Well, I don't know what to speak about." And he goes, "What do you like to do?" And he goes, "I like to ride my motorcycle." He goes, "Well, then do something about your motorcycle."

Travis Bader: Hmm. "

Kyle Lamb: What do you do with your motorcycle that you could teach everybody?" Change in oil He goes, "Well, teach us how to change oil on your motorcycle."

Travis Bader: Mm. "

Kyle Lamb: How am I gonna do that?" And he goes, "You're gonna bring your motorcycle into the classroom and you're gonna show us how to do it."

Travis Bader: And I bet he was pleased as anything. He could-

Kyle Lamb: This kid was like- ...

Travis Bader: he can share something he's passionate about ...

Kyle Lamb: totally stoked.

Travis Bader: Mm.

Kyle Lamb: We were all [02:24:00] stoked because we're seeing this guy act a d- a, he, we'd never seen him excited.

We'd never seen him happy. We've never seen him- It's contagious ... like engage with people. He, he, he brought his motorcycle in the school, which was awesome - Yep ...

Travis Bader: and

Kyle Lamb: pushed it down the hallway, and pushed it into Mr. Kinder's class, and he gave that, that class on it. And, you know, how many teachers would've been like, "No, you can't do that.

No, you can't."

Travis Bader: Right. "

Kyle Lamb: Do something else." Get, you know, d- it's like, come on, man, you know? Right. Do something that really... If, if you wanna inspire people to greatness, you've, you've gotta let them kinda pick what that greatness is gonna be, I think, you know?

Travis Bader: As much as you're talking about Patton there earlier, he did have that one quote which I do like, "Don't tell a man how to do something, tell him what you wanna see accomplished and let him surprise you with the results."

And that's- Yeah ... one thing that I...

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, and in the military we call that [02:25:00] commander's intent, you know? That's, that's literally, that is... What he said right there is, is basic- it's not exactly, but if you looked in a military manual, manual what commander's intent is, it's what you want- Mm ... the end state to be.

It's not how you want them to get there, it's what you h- want completed at the end of the day. Right. Or at the end of the mission, or at the end of the tour of duty, or whatever it might be. So yeah, I agree with that 100%. You, you inspire people to greatness be- by letting them be part of that planning how to execute that mission, not giving them every...

You know, if you wanna micromanage, you can get the job done, but it's not gonna be as good as if you said, "I'm gonna give you this mission. I'm gonna give you my guidance. I'm gonna give you my commander's intent, and then I'm gonna step back and I'm gonna supervise." And supervising is different than micromanaging.

Supervising- Right ... is what a leader does. Micromanaging is what somebody does that's not sure of themself, you know? Mm-hmm. They, they don't, they, they're not sure enough of their people and [02:26:00] themselves to trust them to do just, "You guys go do the job." Now, I gotta be inc- involved with this. That's what supervision is.

Travis Bader: Mm-hmm.

Kyle Lamb: So.

Travis Bader: Yeah, I think, I think a lotta people have a difficult time with that. I know, like, having staff on, I will, I will say the Patton thing. I'll say, "Lookit, I'm not gonna tell you how to do something. Uh, I'll let you know what I'd like to see accomplished. You can surprise me with the results. Make sure it's legal.

Make sure it's ethical. Don't surprise me in ways that aren't legal and ethical when you get to the results." Yeah. Right? Uh, I'm not leaving you out in the wind. You're, you're here to, uh, you've got support. Ask for it. I don't wanna micromanage you. Some people thrive. Other people, they don't know what to do in a situation like that, and they start falling apart.

And it took me a while to realize we have to find a different place for those people Yeah and, and just bring it-

Kyle Lamb: Well, either you mentor them up and you, you, you work with them and, and inspire them just [02:27:00] like he did with that kid. Hmm. You find what they're good at, and you put them... Like you said, you're gonna find another spot.

That doesn't mean that we hide them away, but put them in a spot where their greatness can be brought-

Travis Bader: Right ...

Kyle Lamb: you know, it can be- That's

Travis Bader: right ...

Kyle Lamb: ripened and brought right to the surface, you know? So- Yeah. No, that's good.

Travis Bader: Well, um, if people wanna get this book, I got mine on Amazon. I think they can get signed copies right from your website, can they?

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, and so just so you know, the copies- Yeah ... are slightly different. Okay. So this copy, I'm gonna try to... I don't know if you can see it, but there's a- Uh-huh ... there's a raised, this dagger-

Travis Bader: Oh, mine's not raised ...

Kyle Lamb: is raised, and so is the cross.

Travis Bader: Yeah. No, mine's not raised.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah. So you're telling me I gotta buy another one.

So this, this one is printed, uh, by Tramping the Hurdle Publishing. That's us. And these are available from the Viking Tactics website if you put a note that you want me to sign it. Or if you want it [02:28:00] personalized to somebody, you can do that, and I'll do that. If you wanna get it fast and not pay shipping, then go to Amazon because it's actually gonna save you some money if you go to Amazon, but then I can't, I can't sign them.

Mm-hmm. Uh, one thing I do wanna explain, it costs $27.17. If you look in the Bible- Okay ... that verse is iron sharpens iron.

Travis Bader: Clever.

Kyle Lamb: So it's- Very clever ... it's, uh, yeah, I, I really appreciate you, you talking about this book. This is, this is the hardest project I've ever done as far as writing. I thought Leadership in the Shadows was tough, but this was even, even tougher.

And, uh, man, this took a long time to write this daggone book. Um, we actually left the redactions in there, too. I thought you'd- I saw that ... get a kick out of that. Yeah. I

Travis Bader: saw that. Yeah. That's kind of interesting. That's,

Kyle Lamb: uh- Yeah, so the last book I wrote there was just a couple and I, we took 'em, took it completely out.

This one we left the redaction in [02:29:00] there so people know that I said something that's classified behind that black mark. And-

Travis Bader: Yeah,

Kyle Lamb: I thought that was a- ... there's no secret, is there's no secret ink or anything that they can wet it in to see what I said. But it's, it's so stupid the stuff they redacted, but we did exactly what they said.

You know, and the other thing we did, if you look inside of the front cover of the book, it says, "No AI was used to write this book," and then the next mission was approved for print by the unit February 12, 2026. Mm-hmm. So just so people know that if anybody wants to say, "Oh, you gave away all the secrets," it's like, uh, there's no secrets in this book.

Yeah. And by the way, the unit approved it, and there you go. So.

Travis Bader: I love it.

Kyle Lamb: I started doing this, this... I wanna show you this 'cause it's kinda crazy. So these are just a pair of sunglasses, Leupold- Yeah ... sunglasses. These are kinda beat up, but they're laying on my desk here. So what I did was I added the stickies inside.

Can you see those?

Travis Bader: Uh-huh. Yeah.

Kyle Lamb: So those are just, you wet 'em and you put 'em where you want 'em, and then you can have [02:30:00] regular sunglasses. But if you look down, then you're looking through your- Now you can

Travis Bader: read.

Kyle Lamb: Now I can read, you know, if I'm- And what I like 'em for is when I'm out on the range shooting and I wanna look at my timer, I can see it clearly.

Okay. If I wanna look at a screw, I can see it clearly. And then if I'm fishing, I can tie on- Right ... without, without taking my glasses off and putting on a set of reading glasses or whatever. So. That's clever. Yeah, they work- Do you need 'em for

Travis Bader: your front sight?

Kyle Lamb: I use mostly a red dot nowadays. But I- But I j- We'll see right there

my, my front sight is, is a little bit fuzzy now, but not so bad that I can't still shoot a, you know, regular iron sights, but I shoot a red dot mostly. You know- Okay ... with the red dot you're looking at the target anyway, so it's, it works really good. But, uh, yeah, it's something worth trying. My wife... These here are set up a little bit high, but now the last ones I did, I had them put them really low.

Hmm. And they're just right, so if I'm driving my truck and I look down at anything, it's [02:31:00] clear. But if I look up, I don't get, I don't have anything, you know, it, they, it just, it works really well.

Travis Bader: Well, I, he had a exploration vessel from Norway come on over, and they contacted us and they said, "Well, we have some rifles you want, we want you to work on them for us, and make sure they're good because we're going up to the Arctic and we need them for, uh, bear defense and the rest."

I'm like, "I don't wanna do it." Right? I'm busy, I got all these other things. And they said, "Okay, yeah, sounds good." I'm like, "Ah, okay. Well, I guess I'll do it then." So anyways, I'm doing the work and part of it making sure I'm sighting them in and they look good. They had iron sights on it, and I'm like, "What's going on?

Like, what's wrong with these sights? Why can't... Why, why am I having a hard time sight-

Kyle Lamb: Yeah,

Travis Bader: yeah. Yeah. What's wrong with the sights? Yeah, that was me. Yeah.

Kyle Lamb: So,

Travis Bader: uh-

Kyle Lamb: Yep ... I

Travis Bader: got myself some-

Kyle Lamb: I went in a couple months ago because I f- I felt like my, my distance vision was suffering a little bit when I was shooting NRL Hunter.

I'm like, "I should be- Hmm ... able to see that clearer at distance without looking through my [02:32:00] binos or anything." So I went in and they measured my, my eyes and they said that I was 20/20.

Travis Bader: Sure.

Kyle Lamb: And I said, "Well-

Travis Bader: Should be better ...

Kyle Lamb: I used to be way better than what I am right now." So they're like, "Okay. Well, if you wanna go back to what you were, we can do that."

So they put me- Hmm ... at 20/13 with, with, um, prescription... I, so I actually took a set of... I, I do a lot of work with Leupold, so I, I took- Yep ... a, uh, a set of Leupold glasses, and I- Gave them to the lady here in Nashville, and she popped the lenses out and she put her lenses in there, and then my wife put the stickies in there, and I'm set up now.

So, and I really like them, so now I'm gonna have them make me a set of sunglasses the same way so that I can- Oh, that's smart ... see really good at distance, and then up close I'm just using these stickies that are inside there. And I put them on the inside, not on the outside, 'cause on the inside- Right

then they don't create a glare.

Travis Bader: And no one can tell what you're doing and the rest, yeah.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, yeah, and I don't care if people- They look, they look cool. Yeah. They, they... I don't care if people [02:33:00] know, but if you put them on the outside, they catch a glare when the sun hits the top of them. Oh, okay. If you put them inside, you don't get a glare.

So you don't even, like, the... You don't even notice them. I mean, unless I do, like, some super, super stupid shooting position under a vehicle or- ... something laid really weird with my gun turned or... Th- then I- Yeah ... might notice it, but usually I don't notice them at all. So I really, I li- I like them, and they're, like, 12 bucks or something on Amazon.

I,

Travis Bader: I don't know if you can see all the paperwork on my desk here. I didn't even get into a fraction of all the different things that I'd put together, but I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. I really- Well, you,

Kyle Lamb: you let me know if you ever want, you know, if, if... Y- you just call me up. I really enjoy talking with you, so if I can ever...

If you wanna continue the conversation, you let me know. Uh, I appreciate you reaching out to me. I was super excited when you said, "Hey, I, I got the book. You gotta come on the podcast." And I'm like, "All right, this is awesome," 'cause a lot of people have been, been, uh, giving us a hard time about, you know, "When's it coming?

When's [02:34:00] it coming? When's it coming?" And now we put it out- Mm ... and, and we're getting a bunch of orders, so it's really good.

Travis Bader: Well, and likewise right back at you. And the number of people who've reached out to me and who've said that they found great value in the last podcast that we did together, as well as the, uh, the year-end reflection.

So, um, uh, I appreciate you. Thank you.

Kyle Lamb: Yeah, for sure. It's an honor to be on here with you. I appreciate it.