May 27, 2020

Podcast Show Notes: Ep. 22: Ineffective gun control & Canadian gun ban

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Podcast Show Notes

Date: May 28 2020
Episode: 22
Title: Ineffective gun control & Canadian gun ban
Guest(s): Shane Mathieson,
Third generation owner of Reliable Gun in Vancouver
Show Link: Watch YouTube Video Here or Listen to the Podcast Here.
Blog Link: You can find our Blog post for this Episode Here.

Brief Summary of Show:

In this episode of The Silvercore Podcast, Travis Bader sits down with Shane Mathieson, the third generation owner of Reliable Gun in Vancouver BC. Listen in as they discuss how Reliable Gun got it’s start, the recent OIC firearms ban and how it’s affecting business as well as how COVID has impacted gun sales and more! 

If you have a story that would be of value to the Silvercore audience, or know someone who does, email us at podcast@silvercore.ca.  We would love to hear from you!

Topics discussed in this episode:

  • Introduction [00:00:00 – 00:01:25]
  • Reliable Gun’s start [00:01:26 – 00:06:23]
  • Pheasant Hunting [00:06:24 – 00:09:20]
  • Reliable Gun & Tackle [00:09:21 – 00:11:54]
  • COVID affects on business [00:11:55 – 00:14:02]
  • OIC firearms ban [00:14:03 – 00:20:49]
  • Picking apart the firearms ban legislation [00:20:49 – 00:23:31]
  • Firearms ban affects & banding together [00:23:32 – 00:28:56]
  • Ban of 12 gauge shotguns & politics [00:28:57 – 00:31:09]
  • Shooters are normal people [00:31:09 – 00:34:04]
  • Online consumerism vs. in person purchases [00:34:05 – 00:36:16]
  • Prohibited rifle [00:36:17 – 00:37:35]
  • Insights on the firearm ban & the stigma around firearms owners [00:37:35 – 00:46:58]
  • Statistics & Firearms in the media [00:46:59 – 00:49:36]
  • Interpretations, buyback & grandfathering of firearms banned [00:49:37 – 00:50:43]
  • Hunting as an essential service [00:50:45 – 00:52:06]
  • Raising awareness [00:52:06 – 00:54:27]
  • Reliable Sales [00:54:27 – 00:55:35]
  • Outro [00:55:36 – 00:56:03]

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Episode Transcript:

Travis Bader: [00:00:00] I’m Travis Bader and this is The Silvercore Podcast. Join me as I discuss matters related to hunting, fishing, and outdoor pursuits with the people in businesses that comprise of the community. If you’re a new to Silvercore, be sure to check out our website, www.Silvercore.ca where you can learn more about courses, services, and products that we offer, as well as how you can join The Silvercore Club, which includes 10 million in North America, wide liability insurance, which sure you are properly covered during your outdoor ventures.

[00:00:43] In this episode, I’m speaking with Shane Mathieson, a third generation owner of Reliable Gun in Vancouver. We discuss how COVID has affected their business, dealing with the bombshell order in council prohibition of over 1500 firearms and growing. As well, what everyone can do to stand together, present a unified front during these uncertain times.

[00:01:07] I was sitting down with Shane Mathieson from Reliable Gun in Vancouver, and it’s a long time coming Shane. It’s really good to have you here. Thank you very much for coming in and being on The Silvercore Podcast.

Shane Mathieson: [00:01:18] Thanks for the invite, Travis. I’m sorry it took so long to make it in here.

Travis Bader: [00:01:21] Hey, you’re not a busy guy at all, are you?

Shane Mathieson: [00:01:23] Yeah. Never have all that much free time, that’s for sure.

Travis Bader: [00:01:26] Now, Reliable Gun for anybody listening who hasn’t heard of Reliable, and I think most people who are listening to this podcast will have heard of it. Has been around for a very long time. You’re a third generation firearms business in the Lower Mainland here in Vancouver on on Fraser street. Can you give us a little bit of history about how Reliable got got started?

Shane Mathieson: [00:01:48] Sure. Reliable was started by my grandfather in 1950. Before that, he was a milkman and had tinkered with guns since just shortly after the second world war and he got to be friends with a gentleman named Poldi Bentley, who, for anyone who doesn’t know, was the person who started Canadian forest products.

[00:02:10] Now, Poldi, he was a fairly generous man and suggested to my grandfather that he should start a business in the firearms industry after he had built a few guns for Poldi and had offered him a loan to start the business. And so with a handshake, and $2,000 of borrowed money from Mr. Bentley, he started Reliable Gun.

Travis Bader: [00:02:32] Wow.

Shane Mathieson: [00:02:33] That was at 28th and Maine at the time. We were at that location from 1950 till 1957 after 1957 we moved from Maine street over to Fraser street at 26th and Fraser. And we were at that location until 1978 when we moved to our current location, which is at 16th and Fraser.

Travis Bader: [00:02:52] So your grandfather ran the business, family business, and then your father said, Hey, this is for me.

Shane Mathieson: [00:02:59] Yeah. He started working in the business when he was just a kid full time at the store from 1957 and he retired about five or six years ago. I’d been in there since 1992 and basically my brother and I, my brother joined us in 2000.

Travis Bader: [00:03:17] Right.

Shane Mathieson: [00:03:17] And from that time, he and I move the business to where we are now, to what we are now. And dad retired after we had taken over in 2000.

Travis Bader: [00:03:26] Yeah. You know, I remember my father talking about Reliable and he grew up, I guess a few doors down from your mom in Vancouver. And Reliable has always been a go to place for me, even though it’s a little bit of a drive from, well, I grew up in Surrey, but definitely there’s a reason why I go to Reliable and why we refer our students to go over to Reliable.

[00:03:47] You are a family business. You do treat people with a lot of respect, a lot of courtesy, and I know that any of our students that we send over, any new person looking to get into the firearms sport or into hunting are going to be treated well.

Shane Mathieson: [00:04:03] We try to treat everyone with respect. I mean, without the people on the other side of the counter, we don’t need to be there. We have to remember that everyone started with basically no knowledge and you can’t expect them to come in and have everything figured out before they come in the door. It’s not really reasonable to expect that from anyone.

Travis Bader: [00:04:23] Yeah, and it’s difficult and it can be off putting. It’s, it’s an intimidating thing for a lot of people brand new to the sport to walk into a gun store and be like, geez, I don’t know what I’m doing. I don’t know what I’m even asking for.

Shane Mathieson: [00:04:35] I can totally understand that there was a stigma for a lot of years that it was an old man’s sport with, you know, no room for kids or no room for women or no room for someone who’s just getting started.

[00:04:47] You had to know everything before you got there, and we really wanted to change that in our store anyway, that everyone could be included. Didn’t matter what your background was, whether you had people in your life who had shot in the past, or if you just wanted to try it because you thought it would be an interesting sport for yourself. Whether you had experienced or not.

Travis Bader: [00:05:07] Well, yeah, and it is a family business, but you’ve also got a number of staff working there and you treat them like family too. It’s, you really do get that feeling when you go into the store.

Shane Mathieson: [00:05:19] Most of our guys have been with us for quite a while. We’re really lucky that because you treat them with respect and you ask their opinions on your business practices as you’re going forward, they feel included in the decisions that are being made. Not like they’re just an employee. They have some input on the items we bring in for sale.

Travis Bader: [00:05:39] You guys sponsor a ton of events too. I mean, I was doing a podcast with Taka Kuwata, team White Rice, and we’ve doing some videos in here as well. Got the nice sponsored shirt on, is Reliable front and center it across there, but.

Shane Mathieson: [00:05:53] Yep.

Travis Bader: [00:05:53] Team White Rice isn’t the only thing that Reliable sponsors you guys sponsor and donate money to a number of organizations.

Shane Mathieson: [00:06:00] Yeah, we’d sponsor lots of different shooting events, trapshooting events, sporting clays, skeet events. We do work with Boy Scouts of Canada. We set up many different things through the ALS Society of BC for different shoots to sponsor. So many things that you can’t even think about all when you’re put on a spot sometimes.

Travis Bader: [00:06:21] And it’s hard to talk about yourself. I know.

Shane Mathieson: [00:06:23] Absolutely.

Travis Bader: [00:06:24] Now there’s one thing that I saw on social media, which I was definitely jealous about it, and I thought, man, I wish I was working in Reliable right now because you guys went out with your staff and you guys did a Pheasant hunt, didn’t you?

Shane Mathieson: [00:06:38] Yeah. That was sort of to celebrate our 70th year. We took the entire staff on a guided  Pheasant hunt in Big Bar Guest Ranch.

Travis Bader: [00:06:47] How was that trip? I mean, the pictures were fantastic.

Shane Mathieson: [00:06:49] It was fantastic. We got hit a little bit with some weather cause, I mean, it was in February, so the weather can be cold and windy and rainy in BC at that time. But we got hit with a little bit of snow and a little bit of blowing wind. But for the most part, we got pretty lucky it wasn’t really overcast. We had great birds, we had phenomenal dogs and had really, really had a lot of fun doing it.

Travis Bader: [00:07:14] You know, I try my hand at doing some Pheasant hunting out here in Ladner and it’s a very kind of tight knit close community. And there was a charity auction and a friend of mine and myself, we bid on a pass for two people to be a part of the gun club so we could take advantage of the Pheasant hunting and man, you really do need a dog.

Shane Mathieson: [00:07:34] Oh, to chase Pheasants, yeah, you’d be surprised. You can be standing in grass that’s only maybe six, eight inches high and your dog will be pointing at a spot in the grass and you look at it and think there’s nothing there. What? What’s wrong with this dog? And you walk over and you root your boot around in the grass and out pops a Pheasant and you’re thinking, how did I not see that? It was hiding in nothing. It’s amazing how they can hide.

Travis Bader: [00:08:01] Man, I was out there. I remember one day I put in, I think it was 10 hours. I thought, just no dog, just myself. I’m out there, I’m dedicated, I’m going to get myself a Pheasant. Nope, nothing. So we went out and I said, talk to a friend, and he’s got a dog. What was it a, it was a German short hair pointer.

Shane Mathieson: [00:08:20] Excellent Pheasant dogs.

Travis Bader: [00:08:21] Totally! Just not this one. This dog was so excited to get out there, and my buddy, he was from the States and he says, Oh, you know what we’ll do is, I’ve seen it done before, we’ll have a really long lead on the dog, and so that if there’s any Pheasants in between us and the dog, the line will scare him up in and that that’ll be a part of our tactic here.

[00:08:45] I’m like oh okay, sure I guess, I haven’t done this before, let’s try it out. And man, that dog got itself so excited. Gets out, took about three or four craps. He gets the, the lead on it, big, long rope and proceeded to run it around him both four times in a circle and take off. I just see the guy’s legs go straight up in the air, lands, read the pile of fresh dog crap, and that was the beginning of our, or using a dog on a Pheasant hunt.

Shane Mathieson: [00:09:16] That would have made for a long day.

Travis Bader: [00:09:18] Oh it was, it was an interesting day.

Shane Mathieson: [00:09:20] I can only imagine.

Travis Bader: [00:09:21] Oh man, I remember. And not being Reliable Gun. I remember it being Reliable Gun and Tackle.

Shane Mathieson: [00:09:28] Yup. That was how we originally started. We sold everything from fly hooks and outboard motors to shotguns, rifles, Lee Enfield’s, and M1 Garand’s. All that stuff all the way throughout. Back in about 2000 is when we really saw the writing on the wall that stores really needed to specialize. There was lots of really good companies that were doing an excellent job on the fishing side of things in Vancouver, and we didn’t have the same passion for fishing that we did for the shooting sports.

[00:10:00] So we, don’t get me wrong, I love to go out and fish, but I didn’t have the passion to sell hooks. I didn’t have the passion to sell reels and rods, but really had the passion on the firearms end of things.

Travis Bader: [00:10:11] So on the sports shooting side.

Shane Mathieson: [00:10:13] Yeah.

Travis Bader: [00:10:13] Hunters, they’ll have hunting season and it’s going to be really busy for you guys.

Shane Mathieson: [00:10:18] Yep.

Travis Bader: [00:10:18] But that’s not going to carry your store all year long.

Shane Mathieson: [00:10:21] No, exactly. Our, don’t get me wrong, the hunters are, are the the guys that we originally built the store around.

Travis Bader: [00:10:27] Right.

Shane Mathieson: [00:10:27] And they’re wonderful, we love them to death. Wouldn’t trade anything for it. That’s my biggest passion is the hunting side of things. I love going out chasing birds, chasing deer, chasing elk. And I’ll spend probably three months of the year hunting hard.

[00:10:42] I’d spend six, but I’m not allowed to, I have a wife, I have a kid, I have other obligations, like running a business that I can’t spend that kind of time being away from. But what really helps us out is the sport shooting community who are going to the range the rest of the year, not just for the five months of hunting season are what carry us through the year.

[00:11:03] They get out, they play with their firearms, they go out, they shoot every weekend. They’ll go out and shoot a hundred rounds or 20 rounds or 10 rounds and just go up to the range and drink coffee with their buddies, whatever it happens to be. Those are the guys that keep us going. Cause they’ll come in every few weeks and they’ll need a new cleaning brush or a new box of shells or want to see the latest new pistol that came out this year. Or a new scope, spotting scope, whatever happens to be.

Travis Bader: [00:11:30] And really from a business standpoint, it is a sport shooters that are really helping maintain the business, like reliable for the hunters.

Shane Mathieson: [00:11:39] Hundred percent. Yeah, I would say they are, they make up probably 50 to 60% of our business when it comes to actual dollars and cents, or the hunters who are going to be maybe 30 to 40% of what are income is for the year.

Travis Bader: [00:11:55] So now here we are 2020 and we get a big whammy of COVID, which of course it’s affecting everybody all over the world.

Shane Mathieson: [00:12:04] Yep.

Travis Bader: [00:12:06] And in some ways it’s been really tough on a lot of businesses. How, I think I have an idea of how you’re going to answer this one, but when COVID first hit, how was that for the sporting goods store?

Shane Mathieson: [00:12:18] It was interesting. It was a difficult time for us to scramble and adapt to what was required in order to keep everyone that was in the store safe, ourselves and our customers included. We did have a pretty good rush when it initially started and had to really change how we did business so that we could keep the populace safe.

Travis Bader: [00:12:44] Right. And that was shutting the door essentially.

Shane Mathieson: [00:12:47] Yeah. We had to shut the doors, basically go to an online ordering system and phone ordering system with basically delivery only. Was too hard for us to maintain safe distances from everybody when we had the number of people coming by and stopping at the store.

Travis Bader: [00:13:04] Totally. And now I know when it first hit from the training side and we were inundated with calls, everybody wanting to get a gun. Now I gotta get my training. There was a fear, and I guess the idea was, Oh, maybe if I had to provide for my family, having a firearm would let me go out and hunt. Or maybe there’s an American mentality of using the firearm if everything goes sideways up here, and I call it an American mentality, but it’s, it’s a legitimate concern.

Shane Mathieson: [00:13:35] I’m sure there was some of that that was going on for the most part though, we found it was guys that were concerned that there was going to be a difficult time getting product going forward with the borders closing. It was going to be difficult for them to get ammunition going forward in the year they were going to have trouble finding scopes, whatever it happened to be, over the next while they saw the writing on the wall that it was going to be harder on the supply chain in the future.

Travis Bader: [00:14:03] Right. And then few weeks go by, the mad rush starts to die down, a couple of months go into it, and we have a big bombshell dropped on.

Shane Mathieson: [00:14:15] Yeah. The liberal government changing the rules on us overnight was a real big kick in the pants for, for all of us. I mean, it’s not so much loss in business as it is the loss of rights for all of us Canadians. It’s amazing that they can do that without any parliamentary review or oversight.

Travis Bader: [00:14:36] Just a stroke of a pen.

Shane Mathieson: [00:14:37] Yep.

Travis Bader: [00:14:38] Overnight, make a bunch of new rules, which are now just being analyzed with a microscope and being found wanting. I mean, whoever was behind putting these things together, it doesn’t look like they had a background in firearms. They just had an idea of what they wanted to do.

Shane Mathieson: [00:14:57] Yeah. It seemed that they almost like they were looking at a list of items that had negative connotations attached to it and figuring a way that they could make it disappear thinking that that was going to save the world when realistically all it’s done is made it harder for people who legally own the firearms.

[00:15:15] The guns themselves have been in the country for 70 plus years. There’s hundreds of thousands of these firearms within the country that have, to my knowledge, never been a problem going back over those 70 years.

Travis Bader: [00:15:31] Right.

Shane Mathieson: [00:15:32] If the guns themselves were the issue, there would have been a lot more problems.

Travis Bader: [00:15:36] Yeah. No, I hear ya. And you’re being very diplomatic.

Shane Mathieson: [00:15:38] Yet to be a case of a trigger pulling a finger.

Travis Bader: [00:15:40] Totally. You know, I look at it and it reminds me a number of years ago here in the city of Delta, then it was a corporation of Delta. The corporation said, I know, let’s look at banning any new firearms business. Don’t worry, anyone who’s got a fire in his business right now, you’re good, you’re grandfathered. But I think going forward, we’re just going to ban any new firearms business.

[00:16:04] And so myself and the other business owners in Delta here, we went into municipal hall and had a meeting there with their Councilman and the chief of police was there, and I had prepared for about a week getting all my stats and getting all my data together, and I stood up and I’m given my my two bits and I forget the individual’s name, but he says, Travis, Travis, hold on, I’m going to stop you right there.

[00:16:31] He says, everything you’re saying, I agree with you. You’re a hundred percent correct. So well, then what’s the issue here? Right? I think if I’m making good points and you agree with me, he said, it’s got nothing to do with whether I agree with you or I don’t.

[00:16:43] This is politics. If we think that people want it, then we’ll do it, we’ll put it through. Luckily, common sense prevailed. They decided doesn’t make sense. There is no reason to put this forward and the hard fight from the other businesses here to allow new business in. And you know, I was catching heat from some businesses. Some people are saying like, what are you doing? This is great. You’re sitting on a gold mine, right? If we’re the only people in town.

Shane Mathieson: [00:17:10] Yeah, but it doesn’t speak to the future.

Travis Bader: [00:17:12] It sure doesn’t.

Shane Mathieson: [00:17:13] You know what’s better for the world than competition.

Travis Bader: [00:17:17] You got it.

Shane Mathieson: [00:17:17] You know.

Travis Bader: [00:17:18] Competition drives business.

Shane Mathieson: [00:17:20] Absolutely.

Travis Bader: [00:17:20] Right. I, I love competition. I love proper good competition because it makes you want to think of the next thing.

Shane Mathieson: [00:17:28] Right.

Travis Bader: [00:17:29] To work harder. What’s the angle going to be? What am I going to double down and specialize on? Right. And for Reliable. Really from my perspective, looking at it, it was customer service is the big double-down.

Shane Mathieson: [00:17:41] Right.

Travis Bader: [00:17:42] You look around, I said, Hey, this is what we’re going to do. We’re going to put tons of effort into the customer service and as well on the sports shooting side I’m wondering, and perhaps, I don’t know, I’m just wondering out loud here, but I’m wondering if sports shooting might be able to be used in order to help turn the tide of the recent order in council?

Shane Mathieson: [00:18:04] I hope so. I mean, it’s really difficult to say whether the government’s going to listen to reason on it or not. If you look back, we’ve had sport shooting going on in the country forever. If these rules are left to stand, many of the disciplines that have developed over the last couple of decades are going to disappear.

[00:18:25] What that means to the country is you’re not going to have international travellers coming up to shoot within Canada. You’re going to have our athletes unable to be competitive on the world level. Even things like the Canadian Olympic track team is going to have much more difficulty than they did before because there’s now a stigma around shooting that the government’s put onto them.

Travis Bader: [00:18:53] Right. I remember years back, I’m like, you know, I want to start a business. I want to do something on my own, really interested in rock climbing and whitewater rafting, mountaineering, and I thought that was snowboarding. I want to do some adventure tourism type thing. And a friend was going to school.

[00:19:15] I don’t know how legitimate the school was, but it was a school in adventure tourism, and they had all the statistics on the different businesses and kind of the revenue they brought in and the hunting and fishing industry just blew them all away. I mean, that exceeded golf, it exceeded – it’s like skiing. You’d think, Hey, there’s a lot of money in that. Just blew them out of the water. And that’s when I thought, Hmm, maybe I should be looking at this hunting and fishing industry.

Shane Mathieson: [00:19:43] It’s a lot bigger than people realize. When you think about fishing, for example, you’ve got all the guys that will buy a boat just to go fishing. There aren’t that many cheap boats out there. I don’t know where you find them, but I found them in most of the places. They start at 30,000 bucks and go up from there.

Travis Bader: [00:19:59] That’s right.

Shane Mathieson: [00:20:00] And that’s for like a tin boat with an outboard on it.

Travis Bader: [00:20:03] That’s right.

Shane Mathieson: [00:20:03] You know, you’re not talking about anything that’s going to be out on the ocean.

Travis Bader: [00:20:06] Boat, bring on another thousand, right?

Shane Mathieson: [00:20:08] Yeah, exactly. In the hunting side of things, I mean, you’ve got your guides, you’ve got your Outfitters, you’ve got retail stores like ourselves. You have all the smaller communities that depend on the hunters that travel up to their hotels to stay and eat and they’ll make their money from housing us basically. Not everybody has a camper and a trailer or does want to take a camper trailer out to the woods to do it. So they’ll stay in resorts, they’ll stay in cabins that are set up on various concessions that are out there.

Travis Bader: [00:20:38] And I think our government’s very aware of that fact. I mean, if it was in this rinkidink schools of stats and the amount of revenue that’s brought in, they’ve made concessions for hunting and for the new OIC.

Shane Mathieson: [00:20:49] Yes.

Travis Bader: [00:20:49] And when, when I look through, let’s see if I can find it. I, I printed though, cause I knew I wouldn’t remember it. In section 117.15, this is in the criminal code. It says in making regulations, the governor in council may not prescribe anything to be a prohibited firearm, a restricted firearm, a prohibited weapon, restricted weapon, prohibited device, or prohibited ammunition if in the opinion of the governor in council the thing to be prescribed as reasonable for using Canada for hunting or sporting purposes.

[00:21:19] When I look at that, I’m wondering if 3gun or PRS or service rifle or any of these other sporting events might be something that can be leaned on cause they did that with, what is it, 12.6, 105 millimetre or less, 32 and 25 caliber.

Shane Mathieson: [00:21:36] And then they leaned on them for the things like the Walther OSPs and GSPs for Olympic target shooters and stuff like this, yes.

Travis Bader: [00:21:42] Right. And they actually wrote it in, it says for prohibited device, when you look in the regulations handgun barrel that is equal to or less than 105 millimetres in length, but does not include any such handgun barrel that is prescribed where the handgun barrel is for use in international sporting competitions.

[00:21:59] Governed by the rules of the International Shooting Union. So that was, and I think the International Shooting Union is now the ISSF, and I don’t think they have anything to do with 3gun or any of the things that have been banned.

Shane Mathieson: [00:22:13] I don’t know. I think the ISSF and the International Shooting Union do have something to do with the shooting with AR15’s through like the DCRA, the Dominion of Canada Rifle Association should be looking at that because that’s something that would be a good thing to look into.

Travis Bader: [00:22:29] I don’t know. And I’m no lawyer, I’m just, I’m looking at it, and that was just something that’s popped into my head and I noted that in the, under the last definition there, it’s specifically named the International Shooting Union,  mind you under section 117 it says nothing about that. It just says for hunting or sporting purposes.

Shane Mathieson: [00:22:47] What do they consider sporting purposes is going to be the question.

Travis Bader: [00:22:50] Right? Who knows? I’m playing armchair lawyer here.

Shane Mathieson: [00:22:53] Yeah, yeah. And neither of us with a degree.

Travis Bader: [00:22:56] No, exactly. With Reliable though, and having such a heavy market in the sporting world. Now there’s, they’re talking, I don’t see it flying through mind you, I didn’t see an OIC coming through like this. They’re talking about bans for handguns and they’re going to aggregate control of that down to the municipal level.

Shane Mathieson: [00:23:15] That’s going to make it such a dog’s breakfast when it comes to trying to figure out the legislation, it’s going to be worse than than what they have in the States.

Travis Bader: [00:23:21] I’ve got to wonder if that’s part of the, the plan. You just make it so complicated that people are like, eh.

Shane Mathieson: [00:23:26] It’s not worth the effort. Yeah, it’s, wouldn’t surprise me. I wouldn’t put it past the liberals to say to do something like that.

Travis Bader: [00:23:32] What does this mean for Reliable?

Shane Mathieson: [00:23:33] We’re still trying to figure that out. I mean, the, that side of the business was very large portion of our revenue stream. I mean, realistically the sports shooting side definitely subsidized what we were able to do on the hunting side.

[00:23:48] It allowed us the ability to keep as many nice hunting rifles available for sale throughout the year that would only turn once a year. Whereas on the sporting side, you’re going to turn those items over three or four times a year. Which is what a business needs to do in order to remain profitable.

Travis Bader: [00:24:06] Totally. How many people work at every level?

Shane Mathieson: [00:24:08] We have 11 people on staff plus a couple of part time.

Travis Bader: [00:24:12] Oh. And this affects everybody.

Shane Mathieson: [00:24:14] All of them. Yeah. All of us.

Travis Bader: [00:24:16] It’s how everyone, their feeds are family.

Shane Mathieson: [00:24:18] Yup. Yes.

Travis Bader: [00:24:19] Most have families. You’ve got a family.

Shane Mathieson: [00:24:21] Yeah, I’ve got a young son. My brother’s got two kids. Hermes who works with us, has two kids. Nick has a kid, Warren has two kids. I mean, it just goes on and on. Yeah. The rest of the guys are either don’t have kids yet or trying to have kids. Affects quite a number of people in the long run.

Travis Bader: [00:24:40] You know, we’re getting phone calls from people, emails. Some people are trying to organize rallies. Some people are going hard behind different gun rights associations like the CSSA or the NFA or the CCFR.

Shane Mathieson: [00:24:56] Right.

Travis Bader: [00:24:57] From your perspective, what do you see as a possibility?

Shane Mathieson: [00:25:00] I think we do definitely need to get behind the associations, whether it be the CCFR or the NFA or the CSSA. What we need to do is try to not spread ourselves or have any infighting amongst our associations fighting against one another.

[00:25:19] That’s been our downfall over the years is too many fingers in the pie and you got one group that doesn’t agree with another group, so they’re going to fight against one another. We’re, it turns their attention away from what they’re end goal should be, which is to fight for all of our rights and freedoms.

Travis Bader: [00:25:37] I’ve spent so long in the firearms industry, raised round firearms my entire life. I’m sure all of that infighting happens in every other business, but just cause this is where my attention is, it, it seems like there’s an abnormal amount of we, we seem to eat our own.

Shane Mathieson: [00:25:54] It feels that way. I totally agree. I mean, I’ve been doing this for 30 years and I can’t understand how we can chase our own tails so much. It’s time for us owners of firearms to band together as one rather than splitting ourselves apart.

Travis Bader: [00:26:13] Yeah.

Shane Mathieson: [00:26:13] Just remember that if you own just a over and under shotgun or side by side shotgun that he used to shoot Grouse or Pheasants or what have you, and think just because someone else has it, an AR15  as an example, that they’re a bad person because they want that Stella firearm. No, no. They’re just another firearms owner who will stand up for your rights to own your side by side. Why shouldn’t you stand up for their rights to own that AR15?

Travis Bader: [00:26:36] Yeah and the sport gun shooters will say, Oh, that person’s a fud. Or the the, the duck hunters will say, what do you need a semiautomatic centerfire for? Right?

Shane Mathieson: [00:26:46] Exactly. And it really shouldn’t matter, you don’t need a 400 horsepower car to go to the grocery store either, but you still want it.

Travis Bader: [00:26:54] That’s right.

Shane Mathieson: [00:26:56] It’s the same mentality in my opinion.

Travis Bader: [00:26:59] And it seems to be, I don’t know if it’s uniquely Canadian, but it seems to be amplified in Canada. I look in the States and I always, I think I’ve mentioned it before, Marty Hayes, he’s got the Firearms Academy of Seattle.

[00:27:11] Of course, I’m in the, in the training world and I, I see how training companies work, and you go to Marty’s school and he says, here’s how I do things. Here’s why I think it’s the way to do things, but mine’s not the only way. Go up the road, check out the next school, check out the other for any order for people readily over to other places.

[00:27:30] And he says, once you’re done there, come on back. Maybe, maybe we’ll pick something up as well. And there seems to be a different mentality on the business side, particularly in their firearms world, sort of in, they band together more. In Canada, I don’t know what it is, I don’t know if it’s because there’s so many hoops to jump through to get a firearm that when people finally get there, they feel like there’s something special.

Shane Mathieson: [00:27:54] That could be it. Yeah.

Travis Bader: [00:27:56] I don’t know. But there is something there and once they, and then the training world, of course, if you’re an instructor, then there’s ego that sometimes follows with that too.

Shane Mathieson: [00:28:05] Right.

Travis Bader: [00:28:06] Instructor of firearms and they just seem to start amplifying more and more as opposed to trying to build business with other people. There seems to be a lot of trying to be the tallest tower by burning the other towers down.

Shane Mathieson: [00:28:18] That’s something that I’ve seen before. Yeah. You have to remember, nothing makes you better than good competition. You gotta be able to work within the industry that you’re in with the people who are within your industry as well.

[00:28:33] If you’ve got two or three or five or 20 different places that are all in the same boat. There’s no sense that all of you jumping off at the same time. It’s just going to rock over and everyone’s going to drown.

Travis Bader: [00:28:47] Do you think this is going to help band people together?

Shane Mathieson: [00:28:50] I really hope so. This doesn’t, we’re dead in the water.

Travis Bader: [00:28:53] Yeah.

Shane Mathieson: [00:28:54] We’re not going anywhere. We’re going to may as well just hand them all over right now.

Travis Bader: [00:28:57] Yeah. Cause it affects, I mean the way it’s currently worded, this affects basically every person with a 12 gauge shotgun.

Shane Mathieson: [00:29:04] The way it’s worded. Yes.

Travis Bader: [00:29:06] And whether or not we want to argue that the choke is a part of the bore or not. It’s capable of discharging a projectile over 10,000 joules.

Shane Mathieson: [00:29:14] That’s another thing as well. You got some of these bigger caliber rifles that some people in the guiding community have been using for a number of years because they’re in a place where they have to go in after wounded animals. They have predators that are quite interested in taking a chunk out of them that they have to defend themselves against.

[00:29:37] You’ve got to have them with these things out there to protect themselves. That was a foolish way to write a law, shows the lack of knowledge on, but it would encompass.

Travis Bader: [00:29:48] Well and in a time when a lot of businesses are struggling with COVID. They’re sure working hard at shutting down a large number of businesses across Canada.

Shane Mathieson: [00:29:58] Who pay their taxes, follow the rules of the law, fill in their paperwork the way they’re supposed to and have been doing it forever. It’s going after the wrong people. If they put the same amount of money into border protection, working to get firearms out of the hands of gang members and enforcing the laws that they already have.

[00:30:17] I’m more all for it. If you want to take a harder stance on illegal use of firearms within the country, Hey, I’ll stand behind that a hundred percent I agree, but banding the guy who has his name flash across the screen every 24 hours on a background check every 24 hours, it’s chasing the wrong people. It sends the wrong message.

Travis Bader: [00:30:39] Well, again, I think it all boils down to this is politics.

Shane Mathieson: [00:30:43] Yeah.

Travis Bader: [00:30:44] Do we, do we think it’ll win us points?

Shane Mathieson: [00:30:46] It is exactly that, it’s got nothing to do with public safety. It has everything to do with buying votes.

Travis Bader: [00:30:53] Yeah.

Shane Mathieson: [00:30:54] And like the liberals have always said, never waste a good crisis.

Travis Bader: [00:30:56] Never let a good crisis go to waste.

Shane Mathieson: [00:30:58] Yep. That’s right out of the liberal playbook.

Travis Bader: [00:31:00] It really is sad, but I think there’s some positivity that can come out of this as well. Because as an entrepreneur like yourself.

Shane Mathieson: [00:31:09] Yeah.

Travis Bader: [00:31:09] Entrepreneurs tend to be consummate optimist. Otherwise, why would they, why would we be doing this if we weren’t?

Shane Mathieson: [00:31:16] Absolutely. If you don’t have a positive outlook on it, you may as well just lock the doors, walk away, cause you’re not going to get anywhere. And we’re trying to find new ways to market and get our name out there to show everybody that, Hey, you know what? Being outdoors and out shooting is not the worst thing to do. We’re not bad people. For the most part, we’re fantastic people. I mean.

Travis Bader: [00:31:41] The most vetted people out there.

Shane Mathieson: [00:31:42] Absolutely. Absolutely.

Travis Bader: [00:31:45] And I think shows like Meat Eater, Steve Rinella.

Shane Mathieson: [00:31:49] He’s a great spokesperson for our industry. I mean, he’s very well spoken. He looks like you’re normal everyday average guy.

Travis Bader: [00:31:59] Yeah.

Shane Mathieson: [00:32:00] He shows you that if you put your mind to it and you can achieve your goals as well. I mean, he’s got a great message every time. Every one of his shows. I really enjoy it.

Travis Bader: [00:32:07] Yeah. And it was a departure from where things were in the past. With a lot of heavy metal going and country twain, and then people running around in the vehicles and trying to sell hunting to the, to the masses in a TV format as sort of an adrenaline sport, which it isn’t.

Shane Mathieson: [00:32:25] To be honest with you, for myself, you know, I’ve been hunting since I was four years old, going out with my dad and my grandfather, and now my son comes with me when we go out.  It’s not so much about the prize. It’s the adventure of going out and seeing what’s around you. Getting out, seeing the mountains, seeing the lakes, seeing the animals in their natural habitat, knowing where your food comes from. All these things play into it more than anything else.

[00:32:54] And I go out there, if I get a Deer, that’s  fantastic, I’m thrilled. But if I don’t get a deer, I’m not disappointed. I’m super happy just to have gone on the adventure and seeing parts of the country that most people are never going to see.

Travis Bader: [00:33:08] Yeah. I couldn’t

Shane Mathieson: [00:33:08] agree more.

Travis Bader: [00:33:09] And the memories, the connections with the friends and family.

Shane Mathieson: [00:33:13] Yep. Precisely. You’ll eventually get a group of people that you, I enjoy going out with and hunting with or fishing with or whatever your pastime happens to be that you just develop these lifelong bonds with. You’ll never forget them.

Travis Bader: [00:33:31] I find it day to day life, people tend to put up barriers. They portray themselves in a certain way that the wilderness strips you of.

Shane Mathieson: [00:33:40] Oh does it ever, I mean, do you ever want to feel small, go stand on the top of a mountain and look around?

Travis Bader: [00:33:45] That’s right.

Shane Mathieson: [00:33:46] And think about if you fell off that mountain, what would change?

Travis Bader: [00:33:50] Absolutely nothing.

Shane Mathieson: [00:33:51] Exactly.

Travis Bader: [00:33:52] Other than maybe the colour of the ground.

Shane Mathieson: [00:33:55] It precisely, you look around, the world would still spin. The animals would still be there. The cities would still be moving along. Realize how insignificant you are in the world.

Travis Bader: [00:34:05] When I was mentioning that all of this drama that’s coming up could bring some positivity as well. I’m watching COVID and  it’s causing people to double down on in the online world and that that can be a positive thing for the consumer.

Shane Mathieson: [00:34:19] In some ways it can. I mean, there’s never going to be a replacement for actually touching something that you’re going to purchase. There’s some things that you can buy just based on the specs of it.

[00:34:31] Most rifles can be bought that way. A lot of handguns can, but some things can’t. If you look at, say, shotgun shooting as opposed to rifle shooting, it’s been equated to me that rifle shooting is science. You put your pieces together, you’re machining is excellent. You develop your loads to such way, it’s going to shoot where you expect it to.

[00:34:55] It’s going to go there every time. With shotgun shooting, it’s art, cause you look at the way a bird’s flying and you have to calculate how long it’s going to take from the time you pull the trigger for that shot to actually get out to where the bird is that is moving in a direction that is not constant.  It can be going left to right, up, down, back, forward, sideways. And if you don’t have a firearm that fits you, you’re not going to do very well at it.

Travis Bader: [00:35:24] And having that actual in person touch and somebody who knows what they’re doing, fit that firearm to you.

Shane Mathieson: [00:35:29] Makes all the difference in the world. It really does. And it takes a long time to learn how to fit someone like that. I couldn’t do it for a long time. It took me 10 to 12 years before I understood what it was to have a firearm that fit.

Travis Bader: [00:35:44] What are some of the things that you’re looking for?

Shane Mathieson: [00:35:45] It’s hard to equate. You have to look at a person’s structure. Just cause a person’s six feet tall doesn’t mean they need a stock length of X. They might have narrow shoulders, long arms, short neck, a long neck, large jowls, thick head. You know, it just depends on a person’s structure before you can figure out what’s going to fit for them. And we all fit slightly different.

Travis Bader: [00:36:13] Oh, I’ve been told, I’ve got a thick head.

Shane Mathieson: [00:36:16] You and me both.

Travis Bader: [00:36:17] One of my favourite rifles, it’s an Accuracy International, fully adjusted, fit perfectly to me. Loved shooting that thing. A lot of people get behind it and they just, they can’t shoot it because they can’t even get proper clear glass on the thing. Just different body shapes.

Shane Mathieson: [00:36:33] Yup.

Travis Bader: [00:36:34] And I see now under the 10,000 joules of energy Accuracy International.

Shane Mathieson: [00:36:39] How do you like your new prohibited device?

Travis Bader: [00:36:41] You got it.

Shane Mathieson: [00:36:42] Yeah.

Travis Bader: [00:36:42] 308, is this capable of producing 10,000 joules of energy? No.

Shane Mathieson: [00:36:46] No.

Travis Bader: [00:36:47] Is it poorly worded and listed on the OIC as a prohibited firearm?

Shane Mathieson: [00:36:52] Yes.

Travis Bader: [00:36:53] You got it.

Shane Mathieson: [00:36:53] Absolutely, it is. Again, it’s getting people to write the laws without any oversight. Without any political discussion, without any knowledge on the items that they’re trying to control.

Travis Bader: [00:37:07] You know, I did some horse trading in order to get that firearm. It was always kind of on my, my list of guns I really wanted, but I’m looking at what they sell for brand new retail. That model is about eight grand.

Shane Mathieson: [00:37:18] Yeah.

Travis Bader: [00:37:18] There’s $8,000 that somebody who’s gone through all the safety training. Does training for government agencies, contracts with government agencies, daily criminal record checks, and vetted that with a stroke of the pen.

Shane Mathieson: [00:37:33] Is now forfeit.

Travis Bader: [00:37:35] You got it. So back to the sports shooting. I’m thinking, I’m wondering, maybe somebody out there listening, they might have a, some more insight on this one. I’m wondering if that’s an option. Like I, I see the CCFR and the CSSA and they’re going after different angles on the bore diameter.

Shane Mathieson: [00:37:55] Yeah. And I believe they’re also doing a constitutional challenge in regards to how the law was drafted. Now, I’m sort of out of the loop on exactly how they’ve  worded their challenge so I’m not going to want to speak on that. I don’t know how they’ve actually worded that.

Travis Bader: [00:38:13] Well, that’s an interesting one too. So over the years I’ve done consulting work for crown and defence counsel, and on one instance there is a, a reference hearing on a regulation that came through on a type of firearm and I was called into opine.  It was a subject matter expert on this firearm and I go in there and speak the truth, explain exactly what I, what I know to be true and leave it for the trier of fact in order to be able to make their, their decision. I watched the firearms program they had since I had gone first.

[00:38:52] I was able to then sit in and listen to what the other fellow has to say. I did a lot of head scratching wondering how that person could say what they’re saying and still call themselves an expert, but you know, at the end of the day you put all of that out there, it really didn’t matter what their experts said. As much as I may have disagreed with what they said, and I could be as bold as to say that I’m pretty sure the person knew that they were misrepresenting the truth, which is a nice way of.

Shane Mathieson: [00:39:19] That’s very political of you.

Travis Bader: [00:39:21] You got it. It really didn’t matter because the way that the law is structured for that reference hearing as the judge explained it, if they go A, B, C, D, and that’s the protocol that they have to follow in order to arrive at an answer. And they followed A, B, C, D, but they arrived at an erroneous answer. That answer stands, provided they went through the process properly.

Shane Mathieson: [00:39:47] Whether they got there, oh man, just show us we need to learn, teach kids in school how to follow instruction better.

Travis Bader: [00:39:54] Well, totally. And, and really, I think the game was rigged from the get go.

Shane Mathieson: [00:39:58] Sounds like it.

Travis Bader: [00:39:59] Right. So we’ll, we’ll go through and we’ll walk A, B, C, D is if we’re supposed to do, and we’ll just come to our preconceived notion and there’s nothing that can be done about it.

[00:40:07] And in that case, the expert didn’t have to say anything because I think the evidence that was given would support a conclusion that would, I think the hassle wander came down to ease of conversion. But regardless, the way, the way the hearing is set up. It’s got nothing to do with right or wrong to see if the process is followed. So I’m wondering if that’s a similar thing here.

Shane Mathieson: [00:40:30] I suspect we might be pushing rope yes. With this, with some of these challenges, unfortunately.

Travis Bader: [00:40:36] Well, if we were to look on the positive side.

Shane Mathieson: [00:40:38] Which we’re going to try.

Travis Bader: [00:40:39] Sure. It’s tough. I mean, it’s tough.

Shane Mathieson: [00:40:41] It is. Especially when you get dealt a blow as heavy as we did in the last couple of weeks.

Travis Bader: [00:40:45] The one thing I keep repeating whenever something is really tough. Overwhelming. I just in my head, I can, I can, I can whatever it is right. Physically, usually I do that when it’s physically tough. If I’m climbing and I just figured I’m going to fall off this rock face. No, I can, I can, I can right?

Shane Mathieson: [00:41:02] That’s the same thing. When you’ve got a moose down on the ground, I got to get this back to there. I can do this.

Travis Bader: [00:41:06] Yeah.

Shane Mathieson: [00:41:06] There’s a way I can do this. I am going to make this happen. I can do this.

Travis Bader: [00:41:10] I don’t know how I’m going to win. I just know I’m not going to lose.

Shane Mathieson: [00:41:14] Yes.

Travis Bader: [00:41:15] Right?

Shane Mathieson: [00:41:15] That’s the way to look at it.

Travis Bader: [00:41:16] It is, and as an entrepreneur, as consummate optimists, we have to take a look at what we’re dealt and what we currently have and ways that we can use that to the advantage of everyone. Because really if this helps the client, it looks helps the customer. It helps us.

Shane Mathieson: [00:41:36] Absolutely. Without the customer, we don’t need to be there.

Travis Bader: [00:41:39] Mobilizing people. I see it as huge positive way, maybe not a positive way, but if we’re to drive a positive out of it, as a way to mobilize the masses, to stand up and say, look at this isn’t right.

Shane Mathieson: [00:41:50] Right.

Travis Bader: [00:41:50] So I see that as one.

Shane Mathieson: [00:41:52] I think that’s the best thing that we can look at is we have to get people to finally get mad enough that they will get off their couch, write the letter to their MP, write a letter to the PM’s office, write a letter to the minister of safety, public safety, and explain to them that they’re upset with the courses that they’re taking, that they realize that they don’t think it’s going to accomplish what they have said it’s going to.

Travis Bader: [00:42:21] I also think making an economic case for it has got some power to it. Every, every thing needs a victim and in this, the victim is not just all the gun owners, but the businesses.

Shane Mathieson: [00:42:35] And it’s Canadians in general. Cause if they can outlaw firearms with the stroke of a pen, what’s to stop them from outlying high performance vehicles with the stroke of a pen or skydiving from the stroke of a pen or whatever it happens to be.

Travis Bader: [00:42:50] And that’s the scariest part. And that’s the part that I think people who are intimately affected by this need to be able to relay to those who aren’t.

Shane Mathieson: [00:42:59] People have to remember the most important thing in the phrase, firearms rights isn’t firearms. It’s right. It’s the rights of all Canadians to own what they want to, as long as it’s not illegal within the country.

[00:43:16] If they want to own three dogs, own three dogs. If you want to own five horses, own five horses, as long as you’re treating them properly, treating them with respect and with the proper care and attention. I see no reason to, to go differently. One of the biggest things you can do is join the conservative party of Canada.

[00:43:38] Put your name down on volunteering for your local riding to push your rights forward, put your time in if you don’t have the monetary ability to donate, donate your time. Everyone could use boots on the ground, a little bit of help here and there, shaking hands or spreading the word, so to speak. That’s going to help too.

Travis Bader: [00:44:01] Yeah. That makes a huge difference. The old saying, nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd.

Shane Mathieson: [00:44:06] Absolutely.

Travis Bader: [00:44:07] Right.

Shane Mathieson: [00:44:08] Now, is it right now the time to go out and have big rallies, probably not with COVID-19 and social distancing that’s happening throughout the world everywhere, but we have to be loud and let people know that we exist.

[00:44:20] If people see that firearms ownership shouldn’t be a hidden secret anymore that you’re a firearms owner. Be proud of that fact. Be proud of the fact that you own them, that you use them, that you safely go through and aren’t a lunatic. Let them know that you’re, you’re there.

Travis Bader: [00:44:42] I think that’s our, one of the biggest detriments as a firearms owners for a long time really have hid. Right?

Shane Mathieson: [00:44:49] Oh, absolutely. I think that’s been a, a big problem with what we’ve done over the years we’ve sculked out and didn’t want to tell people that we own them.

Travis Bader: [00:44:59] There’s a social stigma attached with it.

Shane Mathieson: [00:45:00] It sure feels that way, and that’s been almost lead in. I can remember hearing stories of people telling me that firearm safety and like hunting safety was taught in schools back in the sixties and seventies.

[00:45:14] But it’s disappeared. And if it was still there, I think there would be less fear of firearms as an item. If people know how to use the firearms, I think they should teach their kids how to safely handle a firearm regardless of whether or not they have any intent of ever owning one. That doesn’t matter.

[00:45:33] At some point in their life, they’re gonna come across one, and if you take away the stigma of it and the fear of it so that they know what to do if they come across one. To make sure that they can prove that it’s unloaded, make sure it’s safe and tell someone about it so that they can remedy the situation rather than pick it up, point it around and pull the trigger. Cause that’s the first thing you want to do is pull the trigger on it.

Travis Bader: [00:46:01] They’re ergonomically designed for your finger to be right there on the trigger.

Shane Mathieson: [00:46:04] Absolutely. Absolutely.

Travis Bader: [00:46:06] In the States, they have the Eddie Eagle program. Stop, don’t touch, tell an adult. Right. And they start kids young.

Shane Mathieson: [00:46:12] Perfect. And, and I think we need to do more of that in Canada cause they are out there. Maybe you get out of farm or you know, cousin Timmy’s uncle or whatever, whoever it happens to be. Little Jimmy down the street maybe his granddad had one in the barn that they forgotten about. They do exist, they’re going to be around.

Travis Bader: [00:46:34] So maybe on top of once social distancing measures of kind of subsided. Maybe taking a friend out to the range.

Shane Mathieson: [00:46:43] Absolutely.

Travis Bader: [00:46:44] Talking openly about firearms, and that’s a tough thing because you know, I think firearms owners have, like you say, sculked in the shadows for such a long time. Then to stand up and talk openly, everyone says, who’s this gun that, who’s this kook?

Shane Mathieson: [00:46:59] Well, that’s the thing. We’ve got that stigma of, of being a cook or a weirdo because we have interest in that. But it’s truthfully where generally less accidents happen with firearms than they do with baseball season every year. You know, you go to anyone who works in the hospital has an ER nurse. They’re going to tell you there’s more people injured.

[00:47:20] Playing baseball and beer leagues every May except for this year, then probably get hurt with firearms in Canada.

Travis Bader: [00:47:32] Well, the statistics are pretty clear when you look at it and what’s actually killing people. And it’s not firearms, right? But firearms are scary. I mean, you’re more likely to drown in the backyard pool or accidental poisoning. I don’t know, you go into the kitchen sink and you drinkin the wrong thing. A surgical misadventure. I love.

Shane Mathieson: [00:47:49] That’s a loved one. Yeah.

Travis Bader: [00:47:50] I love the way they call it that surgical. You’re otherwise fine, you go in for a routine surgery and doctor makes a mistake. Whoops. You walk out dead, right?

Shane Mathieson: [00:48:02] Yeah.

Travis Bader: [00:48:04] But firearms do have that scary connotation that I think is been intentionally bred in for a very long time.

Shane Mathieson: [00:48:12] One hundred percent. People don’t think about firearms. They feel about firearms.

Travis Bader: [00:48:16] Very much so.

Shane Mathieson: [00:48:17] Whether you look at what’s been taught in schools or whether it’s what people have been seeing on the media. And I think the media has a big part to play with it because it doesn’t matter how things go.  Anytime a crime is committed, there’s always a picture of a gun in the media, whether it wasn’t robbery or was a murder or what have you.

[00:48:35] And it doesn’t matter whether it was a guy ran people down in the car. A murder happened. So there’s a picture of a gun, and that gets bred into everybody’s brain.

Travis Bader: [00:48:44] Right. It’s got a visceral sort of response to it.

Shane Mathieson: [00:48:48] Absolutely. Right. Wrong or otherwise it’s, it’s unfortunately the way they’ve, they’ve done it for as long as you and I have been around.

Travis Bader: [00:48:55] Yes. And when people really get into the argument against firearms. I don’t try and convince them otherwise because I think you’re really right. You say they don’t think about it.

Shane Mathieson: [00:49:06] No.

Travis Bader: [00:49:06] They feel about it.

Shane Mathieson: [00:49:07] Absolutely.

Travis Bader: [00:49:08] And I’m not going to change that person’s feelings.

Shane Mathieson: [00:49:10] There’s no way you can.

Travis Bader: [00:49:11] No, but I can be respectful and I can listen and I can comport myself in such a fashion that they can maybe think differently the next time.

Shane Mathieson: [00:49:20] And offer them the opportunity to come and if you’d like to try one to help you get over the fear of it, please come on. I’ll gladly take you out. It’s something that I think more people need to experience to understand that they’re not as scary as what they, they are perceived as.

Travis Bader: [00:49:37] So now we have to wait for new interpretations and find out if there’s going to be talk of buyback or if it’s going to be this whole.

Shane Mathieson: [00:49:46] Grandfathering or what they’re going to do. Yeah.

Travis Bader: [00:49:48] Have they said anything about grandfathering?

Shane Mathieson: [00:49:50] I’ve noticed that it’s disappeared off the website recently. I don’t know what’s going to happen.

Travis Bader: [00:49:54] Apparently they’re not aware of the Wayback machine.

Shane Mathieson: [00:49:57] Right.

Travis Bader: [00:49:57] The internet archive.

Shane Mathieson: [00:49:58] Yeah. Yeah. But I noticed that, that, that word has disappeared off of the, off the RCMP website in the last time I had checked.

Travis Bader: [00:50:05] Honestly, I think our best solution here is what you’re saying is get out there. Vote, volunteer, donate to a party that the conservative party who has come out and said, if we’re voted in, we’re going to repeal this.

Shane Mathieson: [00:50:20] Absolutely. And I think they’re our best chance of having any success moving forward on firearms rights at this point.

Travis Bader: [00:50:28] A court challenge will be dragged out for years.

Shane Mathieson: [00:50:30] Yeah. They’re going to use our money against us.

Travis Bader: [00:50:32] Yeah.

Shane Mathieson: [00:50:33] The government has no money. It’s all ours.

Travis Bader: [00:50:34] That’s right. That’s the old saying about fighting with pigs, right?

Shane Mathieson: [00:50:38] Yeah, exactly. Sooner or later going to get covered in mud.

Travis Bader: [00:50:40] That’s right. And they’re good at it.  They’re used to do it and they like it.

Shane Mathieson: [00:50:43] Exactly.

Travis Bader: [00:50:45] Is there anything else that we should be talking about?

Shane Mathieson: [00:50:47] Let’s turn it around to a little more positive side now.

Travis Bader: [00:50:49] Yeah, I think so. Because you know, there is all that doom and gloom in there. There are some positive, some of them that I think I’m going to think through a little bit further before really, really popping it out there.  But I think there’s some other things that are coming out of this that can be viewed as positive.

Shane Mathieson: [00:51:04] Right.

Travis Bader: [00:51:04] So I might be putting together a blog post on that one.

Shane Mathieson: [00:51:07] Excellent.

Travis Bader: [00:51:08] But other positives are, so we’ve got a spring Bear.

Shane Mathieson: [00:51:11] Yep.

Travis Bader: [00:51:12] BC said hunting is a.

Shane Mathieson: [00:51:15] An essential service within the country or within the province sorry. Hunting and fishing both are going to be uninhibited throughout the year, so they’re not gonna stop us from doing it.

Travis Bader: [00:51:25] Right. That’s a positive.

Shane Mathieson: [00:51:26] Absolute positive. Yes.

Travis Bader: [00:51:28] We’ve got spring Bear, we’ve got Turkey, we’ve got hunting season coming up.

Shane Mathieson: [00:51:32] It’s pretty easy to social distance in the middle of the bush.

Travis Bader: [00:51:34] Super easy. Just get yourself out there. Touch as few gas refill stations as possible.

Shane Mathieson: [00:51:41] Exactly.

Travis Bader: [00:51:41] If you’re not staying in a hotel or something even better.

Shane Mathieson: [00:51:44] Absolutely. I actually intend to take my son Bear hunting this weekend. We’re going to go out and see if we can’t find one on one of the avalanche slopes.

Travis Bader: [00:51:51] Good for you. We’re, we’re looking at the same thing. This next week after.

Shane Mathieson: [00:51:56] Excellent.

Travis Bader: [00:51:57] My son’s very excited. My daughter’s right into dance, she loves being out there with us. She’s not quite as into hunting as the rest of us.

Shane Mathieson: [00:52:03] But she likes to be out there.

Travis Bader: [00:52:04] She likes to be out there with the family.

Shane Mathieson: [00:52:06] Perfect.

Travis Bader: [00:52:06] I guess the other positives we can pull out of this is it is raising awareness for everybody, whether they, just because I’ve always looked at and I say, you know, you’ve got the people who just hate firearms. You got people who just love firearms, right? And then you got everyone else and that everyone else is the majority.

Shane Mathieson: [00:52:24] Oh, absolutely.

Travis Bader: [00:52:25] They just don’t care.

Shane Mathieson: [00:52:26] They’re apathetic to it either direction.

Travis Bader: [00:52:28] But now there’s a reason for them to care. When they look at what can happen with a stroke of a pen, how rights can be just stripped overnight. They now have a reason to start caring, and that’s the largest group that really needs to look at it.

[00:52:42] And quite often those are the ones that will say, I don’t care. It doesn’t bother me. Eh, get rid of them. Or they have them, as long as you’re not bothering me. But if the second that you can make it personal and it comes back to them and they say, hold on a second, if that can happen to that group, the most highly vetted people in Canada, on daily basis going through background checks, criminal record checks.

Shane Mathieson: [00:53:04] What’s to stop them from doing it to me.

Travis Bader: [00:53:06] Right. What’s the next step?

Shane Mathieson: [00:53:08] Yep.

Travis Bader: [00:53:09] And I think there is a positive, provided the firearms community is able to conduct themselves in a way that’s going to be beneficial to everyone. I think we can really start speaking to those masses.

Shane Mathieson: [00:53:23] It would be amazing if we could get them to understand. The fact that this is just one option for them and that there are these other steps that could be taken forward. It’s like saying 1% of Harley Davidson’s are used by motorcycle gangs, so therefore we should ban motorcycle or Harley Davidson motorcycles. Cause those are clearly a dangerous motorcycle more so than any other motorcycle that exists. It’s just about as.

Travis Bader: [00:53:54] But in that argument poses, there is a a level of risk, right?

Shane Mathieson: [00:53:58] Absolutely.

Travis Bader: [00:53:59] The motorcycle gang is going to be a riskier endeavour to go after than.

Shane Mathieson: [00:54:04] Absolutely.

Travis Bader: [00:54:04] Perhaps a person who abides by all the rules anyways.

Shane Mathieson: [00:54:08] That’s absolutely true.

Travis Bader: [00:54:10] Right.

Shane Mathieson: [00:54:10] Absolutely true.

Travis Bader: [00:54:11] And just like any game animal out there that takes the path of least resistance is why we have game trails right.

Shane Mathieson: [00:54:18] That’s right.

Travis Bader: [00:54:19] People are the same way. And if they see the easy path, that’s the way they go.

Shane Mathieson: [00:54:23] Gonna walk down that usually.

Travis Bader: [00:54:25] So maybe it’s time we weren’t so easy.

Shane Mathieson: [00:54:27] Agreed.

Travis Bader: [00:54:27] Does Reliable have any big sales coming up?

Shane Mathieson: [00:54:31] Not that I’ve got planned at the moment. We’re just trying to.

Travis Bader: [00:54:36] Stay afloat.

Shane Mathieson: [00:54:37] Trying to stay afloat right now and still reeling from the blow we were dealt on May 1st there.

Travis Bader: [00:54:42] Well, I know you’ve got your, your annual around Christmas time.

Shane Mathieson: [00:54:46] Yeah. That’s our main sale every year. That’s our annual customer appreciation event that we do. It’s always a lot of fun.

Travis Bader: [00:54:54] And whenever we can, we’re usually out there and you guys always are giving us a hand with that. It’s awesome. Well, and it’s a lot of fun and you guys have bagpipers out there and barbecues go in and I mean, it’s, it’s quite, quite the event. You got people lined up around the block camping overnight.

Shane Mathieson: [00:55:10] Sometimes. Yeah. We’ve been pretty fortunate that it’s very well attended. It’s a lot of fun. We try to make it as fun as we can for the, for everybody  thats there. We bring heaters and stuff because we know it’s cold out there. Unfortunately, the city won’t let us set up tents for you guys. I apologize.

Travis Bader: [00:55:25] Yeah. You know, the city doesn’t like tents right? That’s a totally.

Shane Mathieson: [00:55:31] That’s a whole other way we could go on this.

Travis Bader: [00:55:35] Well, why don’t we look at wrapping it up here.

Shane Mathieson: [00:55:36] Alright.

Travis Bader: [00:55:35] Be sure to check out Reliable Gun in Vancouver.

Shane Mathieson: [00:55:40] www.reliablegun.com.

Travis Bader: [00:55:42] And you’ve got a phone number?

Shane Mathieson: [00:55:43] (604) 874-4710.

Travis Bader: [00:55:48] Shane, thank you very much for being on the podcast.

Shane Mathieson: [00:55:49] Hey, thanks very much for having me Travis.

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