Silvercore Podcast 152 Jesse Griffiths

https://www.thewildbooks.com/

https://www.daidue.com/

https://www.newschooloftraditionalcookery.com/home

https://www.instagram.com/sac.a.lait/_____

[00:00:00] Travis Bader: I am joined today by a Chef Hunter and James Beard award-winning author whose work goes beyond the kitchen, teaching others to hunt, butcher, and cook with a deeper connection to their food. Being a key part of the ATE crew, he's dedicated to reviving loss skills. And challenging the way we think about food and conservation.

[00:00:31] Travis Bader: Welcome to the Silvercore podcast, Jesse Griffiths. Thank you so much. 

[00:00:35] Jesse Griffiths: I'm 

[00:00:36] Travis Bader: very happy to be here. You know, I, uh, I got your book here, the hog book. This was a gift. It's actually autographed by you. A buddy of mine, I was down in Austin, Texas a few weeks ago, I guess a month and a bit ago, uh, for my very first hog hunt.

[00:00:52] Travis Bader: And I, I've never seen a wild hog before. I still haven't seen a wild hog because we didn't see any on our hunt, but, uh, Uh, Trevor from, uh, Man Bar, he's been on the podcast before he makes a meat sticks. He's like, you gotta get, you gotta read this book. I picked you up a copy. This guy, Jesse, he's phenomenal.

[00:01:11] Travis Bader: He knows everything about hogs. And, uh, and here we are now I get to chat with you and, and learn straight from the guru himself. 

[00:01:19] Jesse Griffiths: Oh, well, I'm disappointed my state did not produce a hog for you. Cause we have some here and we have an excess of them. And I, I, I like, uh, I'd like to be more, uh, amenable to, to visitors and get everybody basically at the airport.

[00:01:33] Jesse Griffiths: You need to, do you need to check a hog on the way home? Yeah. 

[00:01:37] Travis Bader: Well, we were able to still hunt some white tail. That was pretty cool. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, it was a different experience for me. I've never hunted from a stand over a feeder before. Uh, we saw lots of turkeys. Of course, turkeys weren't in season.

[00:01:52] Travis Bader: I think I've seen more turkeys than I've ever seen in my life. Uh, just coming down counting, I forget, I lost count after about 80 or so is coming out of their roost trees and, uh, but, but not one hog, uh, that was, uh, definitely going to have me coming back down to Austin again, but that's something that you do is that you take people out and you've been doing this for about what, 16 years, I think, teaching them.

[00:02:16] Travis Bader: Hog hunt. What's that all about? 

[00:02:18] Jesse Griffiths: Yeah. So that, that's the new school of traditional cookery. Um, and there's two, two, two kinds of classes that we offer. One would be the, uh, five day class in which we do start to finish, you know, sighting in guns all the way through a hunt. And typically that's going to be four white tail and hogs, both in combination.

[00:02:39] Jesse Griffiths: Uh, and then we also do a lot of day classes. Uh, so. Three to four hour class, um, at the restaurant. Typically that's just, uh, revolving around the butchery. Um, so we just break down usually a hog and a deer like animal or maybe three hogs depending on what the class is really focused on. Mm-hmm. Uh, and so it's just short form butchery class and that one is super popular and we're actually kind of moving in the direction of just doing those now.

[00:03:07] Jesse Griffiths: So, uh, for. For a decade and a half, pretty much, we did take lots and lots of people hunting. We probably had about 500 people come through that program. Uh, it was super fun. And, um, I'm kind of, uh, trying to focus on how to talk to more people. And so These, these, these shorter day classes that have, uh, more people in them are kind of the route that I'm wanting to take right now, which is just a straight up butchery class, how to deal with and cook feral hogs and deer.

[00:03:37] Jesse Griffiths: Um, we do some conceptual stuff around the, um, you know, field dressing and chilling and all that too. So, uh, anything education related I, I'm, I'm pretty excited about and we've been doing that for quite, quite a while. 

[00:03:50] Travis Bader: Well, what drives that? I mean, you talk a little bit, you talk a lot about the, what of what you do of the, I mean, this book you have just on hogs.

[00:04:00] Travis Bader: I can't believe how many recipes you have in here and how much knowledge is inside here in history. And I mean, if anyone is interested in the topic, this is, I would say the Bible on it. Um, but. The why, um, why, why do you do this? What is it that drives you? 

[00:04:19] Jesse Griffiths: I think that, I mean, we all, we all enjoy certain things.

[00:04:22] Jesse Griffiths: You know, I I've been in, I've been in restaurants since I was very young and enjoyed that for a long time. I mean, there's a lot of. Uh, dedication, a lot of hard work, a lot of creativity, uh, that can go into restaurant life. And for some people, that's really appealing. Um, you know, part of the way through my restaurant career, I really discovered that, that I like teaching the most.

[00:04:45] Jesse Griffiths: I love interacting with people. I'm very curious and I'm, I would also never consider myself to be correct about anything ever. Um. Well, there's a few things breakfast sausage. Uh, yeah, there's probably a couple more things, but I try not to have really adamant stances on things. Um, and I think that that really dovetails into, um, just like liking to teach.

[00:05:09] Jesse Griffiths: And I like to listen to people's questions. And I've always said that the book you're holding, the hog book, uh, It is a compilation of answers. It's, it's big book. I mean, it might be in the realm of like a textbook on feral hogs and how to, how to consume them if you choose to. Um, and it really, it was about a decade plus of answering people's questions about feral hogs and feral hogs have a, there's a lot of questions around them, I mean, from, or statements, you know, like first they're not edible.

[00:05:41] Jesse Griffiths: And it's like, well, that's not true. Um, here's the cover page, the hog book, they are edible, you know, and the next would be, you know, you can't even if they're over this size and that's like, well, that also is not, not entirely correct in my experience. And, and, and so that, that became, um, kind of this, this quest in how to, how does one convey that knowledge?

[00:06:05] Jesse Griffiths: Um, And, and just figured out like some simple strategies around hogs, but it's, it is the teaching that I really enjoy, um, and communicating, um, with people. And I think that like really listening to people's needs around, uh, butchering and cooking. And understanding where they're at, uh, is, is really important.

[00:06:27] Jesse Griffiths: And I, I enjoy that. Like if somebody is saying, you know, I, I'm having trouble cooking this, it's always coming out very dry and I'll be like, well, like, are you, I'm in Texas. And if, if somebody says cook something, it usually means they're putting on a smoker and I'll be like, are you using a smoker? And they're like, yeah.

[00:06:45] Jesse Griffiths: And I'm like, yeah, that's probably why. You know, it's probably because you're applying dry heat. And then they say, well, I don't understand. What does that, you know, like, well, you've got a very lean meat and you're applying a very lean, dry heat to that. And what are the things that you normally smoke? Uh, brisket and ribs and sausage.

[00:07:00] Jesse Griffiths: Like what? What do those three things have in common? Yeah. Yeah. So you're starting to, if I love like working through it and explaining things and just, and not just, you know, teach a man to fish style, you know, man, a fish, you know, it's just like each Amanda fish. Uh, and I think that's really cool. And, uh, and I've really enjoyed it and I've learned a lot, you know, some, sometimes people will be like, what if you did this with that cut?

[00:07:27] Jesse Griffiths: And I'm like, Oh. That's a really good idea. I love that. Or, you know, when you're breaking down a deer, why didn't you, why don't you start from this end or like do this on the tailgate instead? And that's a fantastic idea. So if you're, if you're willing to learn, I think you can retain the ability to teach almost indefinitely.

[00:07:49] Travis Bader: Well, where did that passion for teaching come from? Were you a great student? Did you have great teachers? 

[00:07:55] Jesse Griffiths: I had some, I had some great teachers. I would definitely say that. I mean, I came from the Texas public school system. Is what it is. And there were some really dedicated teachers in there and I always loved them.

[00:08:08] Jesse Griffiths: In fact, it's really funny you say that. I just sent a copy of that book to my high school English teacher, which is a real flex. I'm like, Hey, this book, uh, James Beard Award and you were my high school English teacher and you probably did not think that I was ever going to do anything like that. Uh, I mean, so that, that felt really good.

[00:08:29] Jesse Griffiths: She was a wonderful teacher. Jane Welborn, Mrs. Jane Welborn. Mrs. Welborn. Jane Welborn. Jane Welborn. Thank you, Mrs. Wellborn. You were amazing. Um, and Yeah, I mean, there were, there were those teachers that really, and I never even thought about it. I think that's a very, very good question that you just posed.

[00:08:47] Jesse Griffiths: Um, and, and that maybe that did inspire me. Just to see the difference, because unfortunately, I mean, to be perfectly frank, there was also very bad teachers. Or ones that I was just completely uninspired by. Um, and then the people that were dedicated to teaching. Um, I don't know, I couldn't identify what it is.

[00:09:05] Jesse Griffiths: about it that I, that I love. But I just do. Um, you know, I like doing demonstrations. I like talking to people. In all our classes, I, the, one of the first things I say, oh, I'm like, there's snacks and drinks over there. The bathroom's right there. Ask questions as soon as you think of them. Like, do not hesitate.

[00:09:21] Jesse Griffiths: Don't wait till the end. This is a Q and a process from minute one, 

[00:09:26] Travis Bader: and I 

[00:09:26] Jesse Griffiths: really want you and sometimes somebody raise their hand right there and I'm like, you need to slow a little bit down, but it's very, I love the engagement because it just like it keeps it flowing and it really allows. Whoever's teaching to develop more empathy for the people asking questions, and I can almost guarantee you that any question I'm asking in a class now has been previously asked.

[00:09:53] Jesse Griffiths: And so I usually have a pretty codified answer ready for them, like, Oh, yes, great question. You definitely want to do this, this, and then that, or like, I don't know the answer. Let's think it out, you know, or I'll try to do some research and figure it out by the next class, which is just makes them build.

[00:10:10] Jesse Griffiths: And the funny thing about these classes is they used to be three hours. Now they're almost four and it's, it's just accumulating answers really. Just like, just like I said, it's just. Somebody will ask another good question. I'll be like, that's a good question. It deserves an answer. And then we just increased the class time by two minutes.

[00:10:34] Jesse Griffiths: And if you do that over the years and all of a sudden, you know, when they walk in, they signed up for three hour class and I have to say to them. Listen, I mean, I know you're probably okay with it going long, but like, if you've got plans or babysitters or something like that, I just want to be very upfront in this class is now easily three and a half, probably three hours and 45 minutes versus the advertised three hours, which, you know, people love it.

[00:10:59] Jesse Griffiths: That's great value. People are like, well, I paid this much money for it. It's like better, 

[00:11:02] Travis Bader: better deal. So yeah, I'm always, I'm always surprised when people are like, I don't know, time's clock's ticking. I got to get out of here. It's like, okay, sure. Fair enough. You, you paid your, you're good. You know, we're talking, uh, off air ahead of this.

[00:11:16] Travis Bader: And I just kind of took a stab in the dark as to, uh, what your school life might've been like, just maybe putting some of my own, uh, experiences in there. So I've got ADHD school life for me was. Rough, rough to say the least. I remember by grade seven, I had a desk at the back of the class where I was allowed to go back and they had candy bars in there.

[00:11:38] Travis Bader: If I ever felt distracted and I needed time to myself, which I never used, cause I was too embarrassed to, I had a desk in the hallway and another desk in the principal's office. And there was an escalating desk situation for me. And, um, I saw a meme recently and it says for all those people out there with ADHD who had a desk in the hallway, got one question for you.

[00:11:59] Travis Bader: What kind of business did you start? And I got a chuckle out of that because sure enough, I started a business and my business I started was in education, kind of like you. And for the person who hated school and did so poorly going through it, I find it funny that I enjoy working with other people and teaching people.

[00:12:17] Travis Bader: Does that sound. Somewhat similar to you. Yeah, 

[00:12:21] Jesse Griffiths: very much. So like one of my favorite days of my life was the last day of high school. And I was just like, I do not love this situation and I never went back. I did not go to college. I couldn't, I couldn't, just couldn't sit down. And, uh, take notes and things like that.

[00:12:40] Jesse Griffiths: So it just went out, did things instead. So absolutely. I understand it. And I think that I really wish there was better pathways set for that type of learning or more, um, hands on, uh, almost mechanical learning and, and, and things that, you know, just to trade, you know, for people. They could immediately go do that rather than kind of a more, a more pat and, uh, uh, expectation driven, uh, pathway to education, you know, for, for people that, you know, there's a lot of, you know, maybe you and I right here, like, you know, that's perfectly capable to do things, but, but not, not within the traditional realms of education.

[00:13:19] Travis Bader: Yeah. I remember I had a, uh, Mr. Latimer, what was his first name? I'm trying to remember. Uh, he was an English teacher and man, he had this book. He had us all read called Shula's Joe and the, the book field of dreams was based on the book, Shula's Joe by WP Kinsella. And we had this. Big report that we had to do on this.

[00:13:41] Travis Bader: And in typical ADHD fashion, I didn't do any of the work and the clock's ticking and we had this massive report we had to do on the author and it was coming up. And so I did a bit of research and apparently the author was local. And so I'm like, well, I don't know. I like puzzles and I like to find ways around things ethically and, and, and properly to get around stuff.

[00:14:03] Travis Bader: Why don't I just track the author down? And have a conversation with him. And it turned out he lived in hope, or at least that's where the last address was. It had a forwarding number over to White Rock, which is my neck of the woods, which then forwarded me over, I think was Florida where he was vacationing.

[00:14:21] Travis Bader: So I did my whole book report while this guy was on the beach and talking with him and. I think it was his girlfriend, even though I think is, uh, the book said he was married. So it was, uh, it was an interesting report. I got a lot of information that wasn't, uh, publicly available or out in the public domain.

[00:14:37] Travis Bader: And this is pre like internet times, but, um, you know, having. Having the ADHD or the high energy or liking to solve problems in a different way. It doesn't mean we can't do the problem. It just means we have a completely different way of kind of, of, of approaching it. And I look at, I look at what you you're doing and you've taken a completely different way of approaching something that's been done a lot before, but you're taking a completely different twist with the conservation and the wild food and, and how you're connecting people with their natural environment.

[00:15:12] Travis Bader: Which is really cool. 

[00:15:13] Jesse Griffiths: Right. I mean, just like what you just said is like, you would, it didn't seem like you saved any time or effort in going. And I mean, just even geographically, you, you spend a lot of time and burned a lot of gas just to do it. Probably the most effective way is just to get a little face to face, uh, time and to truly understand it rather than reading a lot of, of notes and trying to decipher and then just almost regurgitate that.

[00:15:40] Jesse Griffiths: So I can appreciate that story quite a bit. It's pretty cool. 

[00:15:44] Travis Bader: Well, you've got an interesting connection with your, your local environment too. And I remember. When I was looking through some of your work and listening to some of your podcasts, I think you mentioned in one that you've never eaten black bear before.

[00:15:59] Travis Bader: I 

[00:16:01] Jesse Griffiths: have never hunted black bear. I've, I've tried it a couple of times. 

[00:16:04] Travis Bader: Okay. So you have hunt, you've never hunted black bear, and I think you said that you didn't have any desire to hunt black bear. And I think the reasoning was given that you didn't have a desire to hunt. Kind of outside of your area code more or less.

[00:16:19] Jesse Griffiths: Yeah. I mean, it's a little, yeah, for the most part. Um, I mean, and I want to be super clear. I'm not opposed to hunting black bears whatsoever. I would go on a black bear hunt with a local, uh, that to me would be like the, the best experience. This is like somebody from an area, um, like harvesting a resource from their area.

[00:16:42] Jesse Griffiths: That said, I, I mean, I do travel a little bit. I've softened a bit on that, but mostly around, around birds, specifically turkeys. And I do kind of, uh, enjoy. Uh, travel a little bit, but I almost feel like with turkeys, I've what I've come to do, and this might be a bit of a digression from your question is I turkeys afford me the ability to travel.

[00:17:05] Jesse Griffiths: And visit new places through the lens of turkey hunting, which is something that I really, really love to do. And I feel, and that's the whole, the turkey book is kind of about that. 

[00:17:15] Travis Bader: You 

[00:17:16] Jesse Griffiths: can go to a place and experience it in a really, uh, specific, uh, acute way. Uh, And and turkey hunt there so you get to see the trees you get to see the topography you get to experience the weather you Get to experience the local people.

[00:17:34] Jesse Griffiths: There's going to be some history intertwined With turkey and I love history in general. So, you know when i'm passing over a river with somebody from that area I'm, like what's up with this river 

[00:17:45] Travis Bader: like what's? 

[00:17:46] Jesse Griffiths: What do you do with it? You know, what's, what's growing over here? That's wheat. Okay. Well, where does it go?

[00:17:51] Travis Bader: Like, right. 

[00:17:52] Jesse Griffiths: Like, so I, I, I, I feel like in a way I, I've started traveling, uh, and taking other people's resources, which, uh, it's, which is kind of hard for me that the trade off is like, you know, I, I hope to go to Nebraska again. That's good. And, and take a turkey. So everybody from Nebraska, may I have one, a turkey this year?

[00:18:11] Jesse Griffiths: But like, Oh, they're like, Oh, I need to ask, um, things like that. But, you know, mostly like I would say big game things like elk and, and bears and especially moose and caribou. It's like, to me, it's fascinating. And if I ever got the opportunity, I would go with. But I would probably just want to sit back and then, you know, I'll help you drag it out and I'll definitely help you cut it up.

[00:18:37] Jesse Griffiths: And I will most certainly help you cook it. Or you can tell me how you do it and how people in this area like to do it. And that, to me, that's almost more fascinating. But I mean, if you have an entire restaurant based off of the ethos of local resources and only using those. So it's, I mean, it's a, it's a dynamic thing and with anything else, like, like anything else with age, sometimes it changes a bit, but I still have, have kind of stuck to that.

[00:19:08] Jesse Griffiths: Um, and not to mention I live in Texas, which is just a terrible, a total playground. Like, I mean, like you were just saying, like, you know, you've got giant flocks of wintering turkeys coming off a roost and you've got whitetail and trust me, there was hogs in the neighborhood. They probably just weren't coming out till night.

[00:19:24] Travis Bader: Oh, I, oh yeah, no, I saw a sign everywhere, but we just didn't see any coming out. 

[00:19:29] Jesse Griffiths: Uh, and so, I mean, I have endless opportunities here. Um, and, and I think it's just like such a, a lush environment that, that. And sometimes those, you know, take like a Colorado elk tag seems to be very desired and I don't want to put my name in that hat, you know, right.

[00:19:48] Jesse Griffiths: Yeah. I couldn't, 

[00:19:49] Travis Bader: I couldn't believe it. So we went down, um, butcher the animal up. Corded it up, put it in bags and, uh, I should back up a little. So we still hunted a couple of white tails and, um, that was, uh, that was interesting. I mean, still hunting in Texas, at least my short experience down there is a lot easier than up here in British Columbia.

[00:20:11] Travis Bader: Uh, it seemed to be a lot more abundant game and, um, I don't know if it was just. Got lucky or the time of the year, what it was. But, uh, I could easily see archery hunting for whitetail from the ground, uh, as opposed to over here in BC, my attempts at archery hunting have been, uh, I mean, the, the deer are always farther away than you'd like, and they're always pretty skittish, but, uh, we took it to a, um, uh, there's this drive through butcher store.

[00:20:39] Travis Bader: I think it's been around since like the fifties or sixties in, uh, in Austin there, some old place. It was so cool. There's all these pickup trucks going in and they've got, some have just gutted their animals. Some, I don't even think they, I don't even know if they gutted them actually. We're not trying to, trying to think.

[00:20:56] Travis Bader: And these guys just run in, they take them out of the back. They tag them up, then they point at the wall and they say, well, what do you want? And you can have your meat all processed in different ways. But they also had a picture of all the different types of animals that the. Process that they have in, in Texas air, you guys got everything.

[00:21:12] Travis Bader: And then some, I mean, I guess people are bringing in animals from Africa. And I mean, I couldn't believe the amount of game that you guys have over there. 

[00:21:19] Jesse Griffiths: Yeah. I mean, it's a really interesting dynamic in that you have a high volume of private land. Almost, it's ninety seven, ninety six, ninety seven percent.

[00:21:31] Jesse Griffiths: And then that, that remaining, um, bit of public land, only a fraction of that can be hunted. So, most hunting here is done like that, and like you were saying, it's a very blind and feeder situation. So you're sitting in a, in an enclosed blind, and there's a timed feeder. Ninety plus percent of hunting takes place like that.

[00:21:52] Jesse Griffiths: So you have your, your native species, the whitetail. Um, quail, turkey, uh, and then on top of that, you have introduced species like your feral hog, uh, which is in basically every county now. And then on top of that, you have game ranches that are high fence that have whatever it is on the menu, anything, a giraffe, you know, and like the really kind of crazy end of that.

[00:22:15] Jesse Griffiths: Right. And then you have a lot of, um, I would call them nativized. Uh, animals that have, have come in and over the last, you know, maybe up to a hundred years. Um, the hog's been up here for maybe four hundred years. Right. Around four hundred. Um, so I mean they're, they're pretty well established. But then you have these other animals like your Nilgai.

[00:22:39] Jesse Griffiths: Access Deer and your Audad, in particular those three that regionally have become pretty common. Um, and so it doesn't, you know, I want to be clear for people from, from other places, it doesn't have to be like a high fence, uh, kind of game ranch situation where you might run into one of those things. In fact, My daughter shot an odd dad the other day.

[00:23:00] Jesse Griffiths: It was the first one the landowner had ever seen on the property. He really didn't want them there because of their competitive nature with the, with the deer. And so, uh, you do have these crazy opportunities that spring up like that. And, and it, yes, while that is an amazing opportunity and it's good, but it's also an invasive.

[00:23:19] Jesse Griffiths: And, and the, in some land stewards eyes, they're like, we want all these things out of here because they're, we're already dealing with hogs, 

[00:23:26] Travis Bader: right? 

[00:23:27] Jesse Griffiths: We're going to deal with all that. And then we might have to deal with access as well. And regionally, you could be dealing with all three of those things while you're just trying to, for one reason or another.

[00:23:36] Jesse Griffiths: Maintain a, an appropriate and balanced whitetail population, which is central Texas, the highest population of whitetail deer in the world. That's crazy. Yeah. And in some situations you will see a lot of deer, like you just see a bunch of them, um, and it's very common to see lots and lots of deer. 

[00:23:57] Travis Bader: What do the access deer do to the whitetail?

[00:24:00] Travis Bader: I mean, I would think that the whitetail would be a more aggressive species and want to drive them out or is it the other way around? 

[00:24:06] Jesse Griffiths: Yeah. So the, the access really proliferated in the hill country and then west of there. So that's kind of a very limestone, rocky area, very dry, except for the river, like riparian areas that are flowing through there where they're very lush, crystal clear limestone streams, very, very rocky, hilly, um, almost semi arid, you know, especially in drought situations.

[00:24:27] Jesse Griffiths: So, uh, the deer run pretty small out there. Um, Compared to, you know, a Midwest whitetail, maybe parts of Canada or even South Texas. Um, and so an axis can be maybe 50 to a hundred percent larger than a whitetail. And then their, their feeding patterns are just, they're more just proactive. You know, they, they eat everything.

[00:24:53] Jesse Griffiths: And. And they run in larger groups, and so they can really out compete Whitetail. I'm not, uh, like, up on all the science and terminology around Axis versus Whitetail, but any land manager will tell you that, that Axis will dominate Whitetail. And then in situations where you have feeders, things like that.

[00:25:13] Jesse Griffiths: The hogs will definitely dominate those a lot. You know, they tend to run, run deer off. Um, and so then you've got two, it's very common to have those two competing species along with the white tail and not to mention the damage they do to all the other species, like songbirds. Um, quail, turkeys, things like that.

[00:25:32] Jesse Griffiths: And then we're not even considering the water quality topsoil and the, and the flora impact that those animals have. 

[00:25:41] Travis Bader: Right. Yeah. Here in BC, we always hear hunters talking about the, uh, the hogs in BC and invasive species, and they're taken over. I don't know one hunter who's ever seen one. I'm sure they're out there.

[00:25:54] Travis Bader: I'm sure there's people out there that have seen them, but I've yet meet face to face with one who's actually seen a wild hog out there. We have them listed as a schedule C animal, which is an invasive species. You need a hunting license, but you don't need, there's no bag limit and you don't need to get tags in order to, uh, to hunt them.

[00:26:15] Travis Bader: But I can't think of anyone. I, I can't, I can't recall any time ever seeing one. And this is, you know, for years I've been hearing about these hogs in BC. So I should imagine that if they are. Going to proliferate in BC, they're taking their sweet time, or maybe the cold is kind of keeping them all, keeping them down.

[00:26:35] Jesse Griffiths: Well, it'd be, it would be a very good case study to follow, uh, the trajectory of hogs in colder areas. And it does seem to have slowed them down. If you look at a map of their spread, the Southeast being just like the obvious place, water, food, and cover versus the West where, you know, the, the, You know, it's going to be a strange day when that first Montana elk hunter, you know, spots a sounder of wild pigs on the other side of the mountain, but I mean, it's conceivable, but I think that there's, there's enough components there to slow that spread because.

[00:27:12] Jesse Griffiths: It has, you know, if you look where they're at, it's, you know, Texas, we have half of them here in the United States. The population, about half the population resides here, the rest of it being spread out in the Southeast. Um, and then California as well. Um, I it does seem that the cold has slowed them slightly.

[00:27:32] Jesse Griffiths: Uh, It'd be just, I think, very interesting to keep an eye on what it takes to slow their spread because Texas now has, I mean, every county they have documented sightings of hogs and some, you know, there's just tons and tons of them. You know, I've, I've seen quite a few hogs in the past couple weeks. Um, you know, I've seen one, two, three, four, five.

[00:27:54] Jesse Griffiths: Yeah, we hunted a total of four days and I've seen five hogs killed in those days, all of them very large. You know, so you don't ever 

[00:28:03] Travis Bader: see a time when they're eradicated in Texas to you. 

[00:28:07] Jesse Griffiths: No, they tend to, they respond to pressure in really interesting ways. Um, so that if you hunt them a lot, the, you might have a population move out of the area where they might go nocturnal, which is typically their, their first phase is they'll go nocturnal.

[00:28:24] Jesse Griffiths: Um, And then if, if you have a very high population, they might just stick around. Don't have a ton of them, then even, and then you start hunting them at night, you know, with thermals and night vision, things like that. You could probably push them out a little bit, but it fluctuates. And I think that's the compelling, interesting and frustrating thing about hogs is that they don't follow any rules.

[00:28:49] Jesse Griffiths: Like there's patterns and they tend to do this a lot of times, but they never ever do what you think or want them to do consistently. They're consistently inconsistent in that they, you know, you, you could think, Oh, they're going to be down on these river bottoms. And then at noon, they're out in the middle of a field.

[00:29:10] Jesse Griffiths: And then I've never seen them out there before. This is the strangest thing. 

[00:29:14] Travis Bader: It keeps 

[00:29:14] Jesse Griffiths: it 

[00:29:14] Travis Bader: interesting. Hey. 

[00:29:16] Jesse Griffiths: Definitely. But if you're in the business of eradication or at least control, interesting, it's probably not the word that you're choosing. So, uh, I, I think, yeah, they're, they're, they're fascinating in that.

[00:29:28] Jesse Griffiths: And I mean, that's kind of rule one. It's just like you, you have to accept the fact that they're extremely hard to pattern. They don't really ever do, uh, what you think they're going to do and they can kind of just come and go. These populations. You might think that they're gone. Maybe they are gone.

[00:29:44] Jesse Griffiths: Maybe they're not. Maybe they just went nocturnal. Maybe they just moved on to the next property. Maybe it got dry after year two of the drought and they're just more concentrated on river areas. Um, you know, maybe there's a, a agricultural crop that's about to come in a mile to your north and you're gonna have a bunch of them pass through there for a week or two.

[00:30:02] Jesse Griffiths: You know, it's just It's all over the place. No set breeding seasons. Um, they really, you know, they're responding to food, mostly, you know, food and safety at that point. So, but hunting pressure can put them down and get them really, really, um, spooked. Like they respond to that very, very quickly. 

[00:30:25] Travis Bader: So they've got, uh.

[00:30:27] Travis Bader: Possible carriers of brucellosis, pseudorabies, trichinosis. I think there's one more in there. Maybe that's it. Did 

[00:30:36] Jesse Griffiths: you say tularemia? 

[00:30:37] Travis Bader: I didn't say that one. No. What's that one? 

[00:30:40] Jesse Griffiths: That's the, I believe that's the rabbit, uh, infection. Uh, but the ones that really concerned with would be brucellosis and trichinosis.

[00:30:48] Jesse Griffiths: All those are concerning. Don't get me wrong. Some scientists be like, sir, you don't want to get any of those. Um, but yes, they can carry those things. Um, in my experience, it's fairly rare. And I hear of, you know, I'm very interested in those types of infections and crossover into humans, and it's something that I haven't heard.

[00:31:11] Jesse Griffiths: Much of it's been years since I've heard of Bruce Losa's case. It was one person, uh, not to say that doesn't happen, but I mean, it is, it is possible. We serve feral hog in our restaurant. So, I mean, it is, it's, it is possible to get it into the food supply. Um, but that's, that is a regulated system. So we, we get trapped hogs that are, that are transported to a licensed facility.

[00:31:36] Jesse Griffiths: It either has to be USDA or the Texas department of agriculture with an inspector on site. He sees the animal. anti mortem. They kill it. He does a post mortem inspection and, uh, then okays that animal for entering the food supply. And so that's the only way that we can currently do that. And I think that's a good, that's a good protocol.

[00:31:57] Jesse Griffiths: Um, but then that, that really helps with the, um, you know, if they're carrying any of those. You know, and then there's a lot of freezing and cooking to temp beyond that. 

[00:32:09] Travis Bader: So I was listening to another podcast that you're on, I think you mentioned that you'll wear gloves when, uh, initially dressing out the animal, but when it's on your counter and you're working on it, you don't tend to wear gloves.

[00:32:24] Travis Bader: Did I hear that correctly? 

[00:32:26] Jesse Griffiths: That's correct, yes. Like reproductive and digestive organs, uh, in the field stuff, uh, typically, not typically, I always wear gloves. I, the other day, um, you know, I, I cleaned all these hogs in the couple weeks, past couple weeks, um, I, I insist. And if anybody's with me, I'm like, here's some gloves.

[00:32:43] Jesse Griffiths: I carry gloves. Right. Rifle check, water, check, gloves, check, knife check. You know, it's just something that I'm definitely going to have, uh, with me is, is a pair of, at least a pair, probably more like a box of gloves. Right. Dealing with them. Yeah. 

[00:33:00] Travis Bader: Well, how are, how are these, uh, diseases transmitted? Is it more of a blood.

[00:33:05] Travis Bader: Sort of thing. 

[00:33:06] Jesse Griffiths: Typically. I mean, you will see people recommend that you wear. I, uh, like I, um, what'd you call protection? Yeah, I've 

[00:33:13] Travis Bader: heard that. Yeah. 

[00:33:14] Jesse Griffiths: Yeah. And, uh, and gloves. Um, but yeah, typically what you're, I think what you really need to worry about is like either ingestion of, of the meat in the case of trichinosis.

[00:33:25] Jesse Griffiths: And, um, and then brucellosis could be, uh, bloodborne. So like a nick or cut on your hand, um, which is, you know, just why I'm, I'm not taking any risks with that. And so, um, always, always with the gloves. 

[00:33:38] Travis Bader: But after they're, they're dressed out, they're on your table, you're working on it. You're not wearing gloves anymore.

[00:33:43] Jesse Griffiths: I typically don't. Yeah. Once, like I said, digestive organs and, uh, and reproductive organs are out, then I typically can, can take the gloves off. 

[00:33:52] Travis Bader: Okay. And it just gives me something to think about when I'm dealing with bear as well. Cause I think they're going to have sort of a similar set of things that you have to be concerned about.

[00:34:02] Travis Bader: Um, 

[00:34:03] Jesse Griffiths: all bears, I mean, from what I understand, I'll like all bears are probably have trichinosis, right? This is my understanding. It's like, it's almost, it's almost a hundred percent. 

[00:34:14] Travis Bader: Didn't Rinella get his whole crew, uh, sick on that at one point? Did you hear about that one? 

[00:34:19] Jesse Griffiths: Yeah, there was, it was, uh, like a really cold windy day from my understanding and the fire just wasn't going and it just, it didn't get cooked all the way through.

[00:34:28] Jesse Griffiths: And then a bunch of people got trichinosis, which you have forever. 

[00:34:33] Travis Bader: Sorry, gang. Yeah. Yeah. They do have a forever that gets dormant. They're never, I don't think they have to worry about it. Right. Yeah. Once you go 

[00:34:40] Jesse Griffiths: through the initial unpleasantries, I think that it's, it's typical. Um, yeah. Something you can just kind of live with 

[00:34:48] Travis Bader: how did you get involved with that crew the meat eater crew?

[00:34:52] Jesse Griffiths: Um, I you know, I just I work with them. I'm kind of in the orbit there. I'm friends with Steve we just had dinner a couple weeks ago and I'll hunt with the honest this spring, you know, we'll do some turkey hunting It was a few years back. I just got called upon to do the The podcast, they had a podcast tour and so they're going around and they came to Dallas.

[00:35:17] Jesse Griffiths: And I went up there to Dallas and sat in on the podcast with them and I guess I did all right. Um, and he invited me back and we've done some of the, when they're on Netflix, we did a couple of episodes with them and I've done some food content, some recipes, um, just a lot of, a lot of food related stuff with them and the podcast.

[00:35:36] Jesse Griffiths: I don't even know how many times I've been on there four or five, six times. Um, and just, uh, just kind of hanging out. I'll get a call from somebody, randomly, and they'll be like, Hey, how do you, how do you do this? I mean, with a pheasant leg. This is what I try, you know, so kind of just like an on call, uh, uh, food consultant sometimes.

[00:35:56] Travis Bader: That's pretty cool. You know, I've told this story in the podcast before, but the meat eater podcast was part of the reason why I've got a podcast now. Years ago, I got a present from my wife, Christmas present and, um, open it up. And there's a couple of tickets to go watch a live taping of the meat eater podcast.

[00:36:16] Travis Bader: And I said, well, Number one, I don't listen to podcasts. Number two, what's this Meteor thing? Cause I don't really watch TV and I had no idea what Meteor was or who Steve was. And she's like, I think you'll like it. It's good. It seems like a good group of guys. And they're, they're into some of the stuff that you're into.

[00:36:32] Travis Bader: I'm like, all right. So thank you for this present for something. I don't listen to podcasts or have any idea what I'm going to, but I went down, um, Met with Steve and Giannis and, um, because there's a little meet and greet ahead of time. And then they go up on stage and actually there's another girl there, April, and we're talking for a while.

[00:36:51] Travis Bader: And she grew up in the same place where I grew up. I grew up in Surrey. She grew up in Surrey. And I just thought she was another person from the audience. Next thing you know, she's up on stage there with them. And anyways, saw how the whole thing was done. I thought, well, that's pretty cool. They seem to have a lot of fun.

[00:37:06] Travis Bader: They're spreading positivity. They got a good message. And, uh, then, uh, a buddy of mine asked me to be on his podcast and like, well, that was pretty straightforward enough. I mean, all I do is. Talk into a microphone. So in a roundabout way, my first introduction to podcasts was the, uh, the meat eater podcast there.

[00:37:26] Travis Bader: And that was part of the reason why I got this one going. And now look at this full circle. I get to talk with someone from their crew and, uh, get to learn all about turkeys and hogs. Pretty cool. 

[00:37:37] Jesse Griffiths: Yeah. And it was that probably that live tour was the same one that I was on. I'm sure in Dallas. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's been great, uh, knowing them and, and just, and being able to interact with them and see the on camera, off camera, um, not, I wouldn't say differences just because they're all, I experienced excellent hunters, like very, very good at it.

[00:38:02] Jesse Griffiths: Um, very dedicated and all very. Objectively interested in wild food and they'd love eating it. You know, I'm hunting with Giannis, uh, for turkeys and he just texted me. He's like, can I bring some big horn sheep with me? And I'm like, of course, I mean, it's like, it's, I mean, you need to kind of set back sometimes and look at meat eater and it's like, those guys are like, they do that, they, you know, being in South Texas with them and a no guy that taken a no guide, so that is a lot of meat.

[00:38:38] Jesse Griffiths: And everybody on the crew had two Yeti soft sided coolers, and they were just loading it up. And it was, it was a big deal. That's not on camera, that's not really talked about. But it was like, it was, and there was none left behind. They didn't go and kill a nil guy and be like, Okay, cool, we're gonna, now we're gonna break this down, we're gonna eat it.

[00:38:56] Jesse Griffiths: And we're gonna do all this fun stuff. And then it's like, cut! And they're like, whatever, does anybody want this stuff? Cause we don't, you know, we're gonna go play. 

[00:39:02] Travis Bader: None of 

[00:39:03] Jesse Griffiths: that. None at all. No. And then, and then we also, I went fishing with them one time and they were adamant about killing as many fish as they legally could because they wanted to eat them.

[00:39:15] Jesse Griffiths: And none of that stuff really, well, I'm sure it does convey in a way, it definitely conveys, but I just, you know, I think it's important to realize that that's, that is true. Like they are, they're dedicated to that and they love eating it. And then their whole pursuit, that whole cycle is, is kind of their foundation.

[00:39:34] Travis Bader: Well, they kind of changed the script on a lot of these hunting, fishing type, uh, programs where it's not all about the grip and grit. It's about the process and the journey and how one connects with nature and each other. And they show the failures. And 

[00:39:49] Jesse Griffiths: I think that's amazing. I love that. Well, the failures, and it's like, you can have a set of antlers, but then there's a lot more there and you, and it doesn't, it's not to the deprecation of that with a place that it was in or the hunter or how beautiful it all was.

[00:40:07] Jesse Griffiths: But you know, the, the whole process is, is really like, is the point. And I guess that everybody, especially on the production side of it, assumed that that's just boring, you know, you know, success gripping grand. And then you're done. Um, but that's like, I don't think any of us really function that way. I mean, there's sure there's people that are, but it's like, it is, you know, I just went on a checker hunt and I mean, we saw some, maybe I had a shot at one, but I didn't take it cause I was a half a second too slow.

[00:40:41] Jesse Griffiths: And if you were to say, Hey, do you want to go do that again? And you'd be guaranteed to not shoot a checker. I'd say a hundred percent. Yeah, I would totally do that again. I mean, and that's the whole essence of turkey hunting is You know you you might be successful Maybe not. It's it's really about the process, you know, and it's like the the tom is in charge, you know You're there you you're gonna make mistakes Until your last turkey hunt you're never gonna really fully learn this thing.

[00:41:13] Jesse Griffiths: And I think that's the compelling thing I love eating them, you know, it drives me, but turkeys for me, I mean, along the lines of this topic, we're like the animal where I really kind of matured a little bit beyond just being ultra pragmatists. You know, Steve used to make fun of me for it. He was just, man, you just, you're just, so he's like, do you have fun?

[00:41:40] Jesse Griffiths: I mean, I want to go shoot a deer cause I need. This, this, this, this, and this in my freezer, um, turkeys kind of cured me of that in a lot of ways, I think, in that I, I didn't look back on three days of unsuccessful turkey hunting as a failure, uh, you know, just because I didn't have anything to show for it.

[00:42:02] Jesse Griffiths: It's like, I need, you know, I don't have any turkey to fry now. And some people that might, the, the, the. Ancillary view of that would be I don't have a trophy or I don't, you know, I didn't, I didn't shoot a big buck, you know, but to me it was always like my freezer has this much space and it needs to be filled and then if I didn't do that as a failure and so the turkey kind of, kind of cured me of that.

[00:42:28] Jesse Griffiths: It taught me like, oh, hey, you can go sit in the woods for a couple of days, um, and be unsuccessful and it's okay, you know, and then, but what needs to happen is you need to get better at this, you know. You know, if, you know, cause I mean, you need to, but you don't have to bring, bring some turkey home. 

[00:42:46] Travis Bader: So do you look at like your whole year and basically do mental meal prep for the year and say, okay, now I need this in my freezer.

[00:42:53] Travis Bader: Or do you say like, okay, my freezer is this big in order to get it filled. I need this amount or like, what's your thought process? 

[00:43:01] Jesse Griffiths: Yeah, that's you kind of nailed it. I I have one freezer one stand up freezer and it has a finite It's probably a 21 cubic foot screen. So it's very finite and all of it has to go in there I I mean, it's an interesting time that you bring this up friend of mine texted me this morning.

[00:43:19] Jesse Griffiths: He's a fishing guy And I love to fish, especially in the spring. And he said, you know, he said, are you going to get out of fish this spring? And I said, I don't know. You know, it kind of butts up against Turkey season. I've got a, actually I got to travel to Bozeman to do the podcast and ride in the middle of like prime time.

[00:43:37] Jesse Griffiths: Um, and I, I, I don't know. And also another point that I made to him was like, I, I still have fish in my freezer. Like, I don't know. If I'm allowed to go fishing, you know, and it's like, and then once, you know, we've, you know, between me and my daughter, once we've killed the deer, I, I stop, you know, it's like, we're done, you know, we don't need anymore.

[00:43:58] Jesse Griffiths: And then maybe another reason why, you know, like, Hey, come on an elk hunt. I'm like, ah. That's so much. That's the entire right there. And I mean, I'm sure it would be fun, but is it, is it whole freezer fun? You know, I mean, to me, that's why turkeys are kind of amazing is because you can have a lot of fun and not fill up the entire freezer.

[00:44:16] Jesse Griffiths: But, you know, you still get a lot of good meat. So yes, I do manage it. Um, we will be eating the very last portion of turkey the night before turkey season opens. Which is beautifully by design and maybe this is just like people are listening to this be like, this guy's nuts. Like what, what are you, but I, I plan it out that way, you know, and like, we'll, we'll just meter it out.

[00:44:40] Jesse Griffiths: We'll ration it and then we'll have, I mean, it's going to be tenderloins too. We're going to. Start the season or end it, uh, on tenderloins. And then the next day it's like, well, you need to turn. Uh, I love that. I mean, we have also the luxury of having hogs, which have no closed season. I don't even need a license.

[00:44:59] Jesse Griffiths: Even if you're a non resident that's everybody listen, like you don't have to have a hunting license to hunt pigs in Texas, non residents, residents included. Nobody needs. Pretty cool. So, I mean, at any point, you know, with a little bit of arrangement, um, I could probably go out and hunt a pig if the freezer was looking dire, but, uh, yeah, it is, it is freezer management.

[00:45:22] Jesse Griffiths: And that's also, I mean, I think that's a fun rest lesson and determining your priorities, you know, and, uh, my daughter is a. An age of where, like this year, she put the most animals in the freezer. I shot one hog, she shot two hogs, one white tail, and one odd head. How old is she? She's 14. 

[00:45:43] Travis Bader: Good for her. 

[00:45:44] Jesse Griffiths: Yeah.

[00:45:45] Jesse Griffiths: No, she's she's great at it. She loves it And she and it's over the I'd say the past three or four years. It's kind of gotten to be where it's mostly her doing that and so For me, that's great. You know, I get to go with her Participate, but in the end it is a kind of a needs based thing. It's like, okay, Hey, and then she knows that.

[00:46:08] Jesse Griffiths: And we had an opportunity and an invitation to go hunt again. She loves it. I love it. Declined, you know, it's like, no, you don't need to meet. We're done. Thank you. I mean, we're at a great place to be. I mean, In the history of, you know, humankind, it's like, no, we are, you know, we're we've got the food, you know, it's kind of like the whole point.

[00:46:31] Jesse Griffiths: So, uh, I, I do love hunting via freezer management. 

[00:46:37] Travis Bader: Were you hunting that 14 or did you get into it later? Later. How old were you? 

[00:46:43] Jesse Griffiths: Uh, late twenties. Hmm. I had fished, uh, my whole, like I, I, I love to fish and always fished and been just like obsessed with it. As soon as I could drive, it was over. I just was driving everywhere and fishing as much as I could.

[00:46:58] Jesse Griffiths: Um, and then did not grow up in a hunting family. Um, and started actually butchered, started butchering before. I hunted, so really resting, uh, dynamic with that in that I had no idea what I was doing, uh, to get it in front of me, cold, cold in front of me, it was like, Oh, I know what you do now. 

[00:47:22] Travis Bader: So what got you into the restaurant industry?

[00:47:27] Jesse Griffiths: Uh, almost a default, uh, I, like I said, I did not, um, I did not go to college, uh, I, I just, I worked my way through high school. The easiest way to work your way through high school, I firmly believe, is that industry. If you're dedicated and hardworking, you can make more money. So I was dedicated and hardworking and, um, I just, you know, bus tables, wash dishes, eventually became a server, eventually became a bartender, eventually became a manager.

[00:47:58] Jesse Griffiths: And then, you know, around 19 got into the kitchen, um, and I've just been in that industry ever since. Well, when did you start Daidue? Uh, 2006. 

[00:48:12] Travis Bader: Okay. 

[00:48:13] Jesse Griffiths: Yeah. So, uh, me and my business partner started it in 19 years ago. 

[00:48:19] Travis Bader: Um, 

[00:48:22] Jesse Griffiths: and opened the brick and mortar restaurant, um, a little over 10 years ago. 

[00:48:28] Travis Bader: And I guess, uh, COVID hit.

[00:48:29] Travis Bader: How was that? 

[00:48:32] Jesse Griffiths: Uh, 

[00:48:32] Travis Bader: it 

[00:48:32] Jesse Griffiths: was 

[00:48:32] Travis Bader: awful. Yeah, I guess. It was 

[00:48:35] Jesse Griffiths: like the best. I mean, why can't, can we do that again? 

[00:48:40] Travis Bader: Well, I know some people who are like that, but they weren't in the restaurant industry. 

[00:48:44] Jesse Griffiths: Oh, right. Um, it was a, it was a terrible time to be in hospitality. And I really want to stress the word hospitality because our, our role was so stressed at that point.

[00:48:58] Jesse Griffiths: Like. What, what are we? You know, are we doctors and scientists? Nope. We are just trying to run a business that everybody wants to come to and we're just trying to make decisions that are not only good for the business, but they're good for the employees and they're good for everybody else. And then the division that happened around that just made it so difficult to be hospitable.

[00:49:26] Jesse Griffiths: Everyone and I think that's, that's the thing that really, it made me sad. It's like, listen, at the end of the day, I don't want to upset anybody by requiring a mask or not requiring a mask. And we're just here to cook. Please remember that. Like our job is to just let you have a great time and we'll do the dishes.

[00:49:47] Jesse Griffiths: You know, like, and, and, and most of the people that are in this industry love that, you know, I love the hospitality aspect of it, and there's nothing, there's never been anything Um, that was, that really just like strained our ability to offer hospitality as much as COVID, but we survived, um, it was hard, but we, we were able to do it.

[00:50:10] Travis Bader: I thought COVID missed Texas, or is that just an outsider's 

[00:50:15] Jesse Griffiths: observation? We didn't shut down as much. Austin shut down pretty, I mean, relatively to Texas, we had more closures and rules and things like that, or, but also kind of the collective consciousness here was probably, was a little more, um, careful, cautious than other places like rural Texas.

[00:50:39] Jesse Griffiths: You could go and it was wide open. Um, but Austin, you know, like I said, you, you could, You could, you were only making whatever decision you made. Half the people disagreed with that one. Of course, of course. 

[00:50:52] Travis Bader: So, you know, here I noticed, and I, I noticed a huge push to reconnecting with nature when COVID hit, everybody wanted to go outside.

[00:51:01] Travis Bader: They want to learn how to garden. They wanted to learn how to farm. They want to learn how to hunt and fish. How did that affect what you do in your business dealing with wild game and doing the courses and. Yeah, 

[00:51:16] Jesse Griffiths: I mean, I think there's, there's two interesting things about that point. Um, the first being, I'll address like the, the education side of it.

[00:51:25] Jesse Griffiths: I mean, we had already established, um, pretty well that, that we're one of the first like hunting and culinary and butchery, uh, classes available, like deep dives, um, starting in two. 2009, 2010 season, uh, so pretty early on offering things like that. So we were very well established with that. Um, it was kind of hard to feel the surge in that, in that we were already deeply wait listed by them.

[00:51:57] Jesse Griffiths: Like it was, you know, it's like we have 36 seats available this year. You know, they were full anyway. Um, but the day classes definitely. And then you saw a slight, not a slight, but you saw a pretty Uh, interesting, and I think great demographic shift in there and just like more people. Of all types, which I guess there's arguments around that, but I think it's wonderful.

[00:52:24] Jesse Griffiths: I just, I love it. I love just like seeing all different types of people, you know, at the campfire or at the table talking about something in all like learning, you know, maybe this person over here grew up around and his great grandfather taught him how to hunt and this person maybe thought guns were evil a year ago.

[00:52:44] Jesse Griffiths: Yeah, to me, that's the best group, you know, because everybody's now all of a sudden everybody has something really cool and common And in a different perspective on everything and so that was that was one way another thing about Covid more maybe restaurant related was that our supply chains were so short that they weren't disrupted I, I, I think it's just really fascinating in that you heard a lot.

[00:53:13] Jesse Griffiths: Oh, because the Midwest shutting down because meat packing plants can't distribute. And we're like, well, that's, I mean, that's, that's terrible. But at the same time I can call our beef producer, our pork producer, our quail producer, our chicken producer. They live, you know, hour and a half from here, nothing changed, you know, so, I mean, there was fluctuations in grain prices and things that kind of would trickle down to that, but at the same time, we were widely insulated from macro issues during that, um, conversely, and again, a little bit of a digression when we had these really severe freezes here, 

[00:53:53] Travis Bader: um, 

[00:53:55] Jesse Griffiths: In, in Central Texas, or in Texas in general, like, unheard of freezes, like, seven days of, you know, under, in the teens, you know, with no infrastructure, we lost power, we lost water, everything, people were dying, it was awful.

[00:54:08] Jesse Griffiths: Um, we couldn't function. Um. During that, during the small, during the, uh, regional disaster, um, those chains were immediately broken and the bigger supply chains were able to, to, to mend themselves and kind of start to have that influx sooner than ours did. The recovery was quicker. But I thought that was just really interesting.

[00:54:31] Jesse Griffiths: I don't have an answer. Yeah, right way to do it. But it's just like when you have a system where you're only sourcing things locally, it can be, it's, it thrives in the widespread issue. Um, but it's, it's harder in a more acute and geographically specific issue. But that's where, you know, community steps in and you start seeing people step up and be like, Hey, we're going to get this done, you know, because you have those forged relationships and they are in your.

[00:55:01] Jesse Griffiths: Local community, you know, which is the most important thing, right? So I I think it did, you know it increased our awareness not only of wild resources, but also of You know agricultural and local resources in general or just just word resources, you know, because whenever something like that is strained It it shines a lot of light on our role as stewards of whatever that thing is You know, if you have, you know, massive pollution in your local river, everybody's like, Whoa, that affects us.

[00:55:37] Jesse Griffiths: Okay. Well, we need to fix that. Why did that happen? 

[00:55:41] Travis Bader: You know, 

[00:55:42] Jesse Griffiths: if you're like, Oh, Hey, you know, the, gosh, the only place I could get, you know, vegetables was at the farmer's market for a little while. And it's like, 

[00:55:50] Travis Bader: Perfect. 

[00:55:51] Jesse Griffiths: Listen to that. Yeah, totally. Well, there's not enough farmers markets to, and then it's like, well, you should listen to that too.

[00:55:58] Jesse Griffiths: Totally. Like, why aren't there? It's like, well, it's because, you know, I don't know. We just don't get out to them. What did you just say? 

[00:56:05] Travis Bader: Yeah, exactly. 

[00:56:06] Jesse Griffiths: Well, what if you went when it's not a disaster and you went so much that the people there couldn't keep up with the demand and then what happens? The supply steps in and it's just like, so it, you know, it sucks when bad things happen.

[00:56:21] Travis Bader: But 

[00:56:23] Jesse Griffiths: in time it, it did, um, it did illuminate a lot, not just for us generally, but for me specifically, I was like, oh, wow, this is really interesting about, you know, people wanting to get out there and hunt, people wanting to bake their own bread, you know, like a 

[00:56:41] Travis Bader: lot of people wanted to make a sourdough, right.

[00:56:44] Jesse Griffiths: We specifically. We turned into a grocery store basically because the restaurant was shut down for a while and uh, we were selling anything that wasn't bolted down and yeast was one of our top sellers. Everybody was just buying yeast because it was hard to find at stores and whatnot and we were able to buy 50 pound bags.

[00:57:04] Jesse Griffiths: It was, it's such a strange time but I think that It, it did really allow us to, to be granted a very, uh, new and refreshed perspective on resources. 

[00:57:21] Travis Bader: Where do you see things trending in the future when it comes down to how People eat out or cook for themselves or utilize their resources because you know, the conversation we talk about hunting shows like meat eater who place an emphasis on how the animals procured and how you use every piece of meat and that the relationship that we as animals ourselves have with our external environment, you start to see a bit of a trend shift restaurants like yours that serve wild game, people start having.

[00:57:53] Travis Bader: A greater education as to where their food comes from and how to consume it. Do you see this as something that'll kind of burn out as a fad and the big fast food chains will be taken over? Or do you, do you see a different trend in our future? 

[00:58:08] Jesse Griffiths: I mean, it's a constant battle, uh, between. That, you know, like giant conglomerates and corporations and change that, that don't have anyone or anything's interests at heart.

[00:58:23] Jesse Griffiths: And that's, if that's not apparent by now, then I, I mean, I don't know how to convince some, anybody. 

[00:58:28] Travis Bader: Right. I, 

[00:58:29] Jesse Griffiths: I think, yes. I mean, one of the most amazing things about the past, you know, 20 something years is the flow of information and you just see how people respond and they learn and educate. Um, I think that, like, uh, a really good, um, example would be lard.

[00:58:49] Jesse Griffiths: Uh, we used to sell lard at the farmer's market and people would walk by and point at that word and laugh. Ha ha ha, lard, lard, lard. And, um, now, nobody's laughing. Oh, you know, and we didn't do anything. Well, I mean, maybe we helped in a small way to be like, to normalize lard, which needed no normalization.

[00:59:09] Travis Bader: Oh, 

[00:59:09] Jesse Griffiths: you know what, what needs explanation and normalization is, is canola oil. 

[00:59:14] Travis Bader: Yeah. Get rid of the crico. 

[00:59:15] Jesse Griffiths: Yeah. Can get rid of it. Like, and you know, but the propaganda effect, uh, that had been, you know, applied to lard, uh, was effective, but then through. People just becoming educated by themselves, you know, like just educating themselves, um, we're able to, to realize like, Oh wait, this is, this is not some evil substance, you know, um, and it's just a good example of how that happens.

[00:59:47] Jesse Griffiths: Um, you know, I, I hope that. Uh, we're able to treat, I mean, just, just treat our resources with more respect, whatever those are, you know, if we have ranchers that are doing great things, they need to be supported, you know, farmers that are doing great things need to be supported in the best way in the society to support.

[01:00:07] Jesse Griffiths: Businesses spend the money, 

[01:00:10] Travis Bader: you know, 

[01:00:11] Jesse Griffiths: they have to be financially sustainable. Um, and the same thing applies to our wild spaces. You know, I think that it's incredibly important that we're able to rate, retain these spaces. Um, you know, and that's coming from somebody that lives in Texas. And so, you know, like I said at the beginning, you know, like our, our public land, private land ratio is off, um, versus Oregon or South Dakota or whatever.

[01:00:36] Jesse Griffiths: Or Canada, I'm not saying that we're 

[01:00:37] Travis Bader: basically all public land. Right, 

[01:00:40] Jesse Griffiths: right. I'm not saying it's wrong at all. I, in fact, I'm, I'm a little bit in love with the system here in Texas, because I see lots of incredible examples of private land stewardship 

[01:00:52] Travis Bader: and 

[01:00:54] Jesse Griffiths: sharing that land with, I mean, what could be called the general public.

[01:00:58] Jesse Griffiths: There, there are people out there that will be like, yes, you can. This program allows you to hunt out here, get involved with that program, the TWA. Adult Learn to Hunt program, beautiful, like that, and they, they work with private ranchers and then people can just come out there and hunt and the rancher doesn't know those people, they're just allowing that.

[01:01:16] Jesse Griffiths: And then there's also just the general stewardship and water quality and preserving prairie grasses and just restoration of native flora and fauna that you see through private stewardship. And so it's not, the answer is not all public land or all private land or anything like that. I think it's working within your.

[01:01:35] Jesse Griffiths: Your community, which is going to be a very The, your approach to that is going to be very historical and cultural based, you know, Texas, you know, I'm not going to get into Texas history, but that's why we are like we are versus a Western state like Montana or, or, or Canada where it's, it's like that for, for cultural and historical reason.

[01:01:56] Jesse Griffiths: And it's like, how do we. Manage lands within those systems to preserve as much as we can be that for hunting or grazing or timbering operations or anything, but there's going to be a balance that we have to constantly fight to achieve. I don't have any of those answers, but I mean, you asked like, what do I think the future is?

[01:02:20] Jesse Griffiths: And I think it's just keeping our eyes open and just, and, you know, just being very resource focused. You know, and so that, you know, our grandchildren, grandchildren can, can enjoy these things, you know, be it, um, a, a well grown, you know, cleanly grown carrot or a deer. 

[01:02:39] Travis Bader: Well, if you're, uh, if you got the most skeptical.

[01:02:44] Travis Bader: I don't want to eat a wild hog, uh, person coming to you. What are you cooking for them? What are you going to cook for them to try and convert them? 

[01:02:54] Jesse Griffiths: Well, I'm going to pick a hog, a very specific hog. Okay. And pick a nice fatty sow. Um, and then I'm going to take the, Uh, thicker steaks off the shoulder from the fifth rib to the neck.

[01:03:09] Travis Bader: Okay. 

[01:03:10] Jesse Griffiths: The copa steaks, like above where the equivalent of the ribeye or the chops. There's a little tube that runs up there and it's got multiple muscles. Each one is ringed with a little bit of fat. I would cut that an inch and three quarters thick. I would brine that for six hours and then I would put a little bit of olive oil and some black pepper and a little bit of honey on that and then I would grill that over Your wood of choice.

[01:03:32] Jesse Griffiths: Doesn't matter. Um, doesn't matter. Pecan. Um, so I grilled that until it was just done. Probably about 155. Um, and then, uh, rest it for five minutes and slice it and be like, what do you think of that? And they're probably going to be like, that's pretty fantastic. Sounds amazing. That's good. 

[01:03:55] Travis Bader: Okay. Here's another question that came up from some of our members.

[01:03:58] Travis Bader: Um, turkey hunting tips. What are your top turkey hunting tips? 

[01:04:02] Jesse Griffiths: Oh, okay. Well, first off I'm, I am like if, um, turkey hunting is a grade, uh, um, equivalent with, let's say, you know, between kindergarten and PhD, I'm probably in second grade. So, uh, I'm going to get that out there and while I answer these questions, so remember that.

[01:04:30] Jesse Griffiths: Okay. 

[01:04:31] Travis Bader: Yeah. 

[01:04:32] Jesse Griffiths: Um, be patient and do the opposite of what you think you should do. I should move, uh, be patient, call less, be patient. I don't know if I mentioned being patient. They're going to come back. Um, but that's, I love that and also go into it with some grace and that you're, you're going to make the wrong decision.

[01:04:57] Jesse Griffiths: You're going to push them too far. You're gonna be like, I think I need to kind of keep up with these birds. They're moving away. And then you push into them and they see you and they're, they're gone. Eat yourself up. Just, just be like, that's turkey hunting. Start over. And Oh, I know here's a good one. And I feel very confident in this tip.

[01:05:15] Jesse Griffiths: Be ready to go all day long. Don't, don't come in for lunch, bring your lunch with you. Like I, I personally, I mean, if you said I had to pick. Uh, like a six hour stretch to hunt turkeys. It's not 6:00 AM to noon. It's noon to 6:00 PM 

[01:05:35] Travis Bader: Mm. Uh, 

[01:05:36] Jesse Griffiths: I like to find a, a nice and lonely noontime bird. Um, I got a friend, Kevin Lander, and he's like.

[01:05:44] Jesse Griffiths: You hear a bird at noon, you kill him. You know, because he, he's lonely. Like he doesn't have hens with them, or he did. And they're, they're bred and now they're off laying eggs, they're on nest and he's still feeling it. And if you can get him to call back to you, but you gotta be out there to do that. Um, you know, if you're, if you're having a sandwich back at camp or at the cabin or whatever, or a nap.

[01:06:10] Jesse Griffiths: No naps. No, no, we sleep at night when the turkeys sleep. Yeah. Um, I Yeah, I I don't know. There's there's little things but I hunt them a lot in Texas Which is way different than hunting mountain birds, you know Sure, we'll hunt New Mexico this year Nebraska and also Wisconsin, so I'm gonna be in these Very different environments when I've hunted them in Washington and Oregon.

[01:06:40] Jesse Griffiths: Uh, it's been quite different than it was in Georgia, you know, in Southeast, it's just hard. There's a lot more pressure and you've got just the best turkey hunters in the world down there. Whenever somebody says, Oh, I'm going to go to Alabama and hunt. I'm like, Oh, it's not the turkeys. It's the turkey hunters.

[01:06:57] Jesse Griffiths: Oh, good. You know, you're not going to find a dumb bird there. You know why? They're educated. Yeah. Day one, that dumb bird was dead. Yeah. Um, and just leaves the smart birds. And then the, those guys get after them pretty good too. Um, you know, Texas has a really robust population of turkeys. So 

[01:07:17] Travis Bader: yeah, I saw that.

[01:07:18] Travis Bader: That was, uh, yeah. Impressive to say the least. 

[01:07:22] Jesse Griffiths: Yeah. Well, they're wintered up right now too. So I think that's another, it's a funny thing because people see turkeys, maybe if they don't hunt turkeys, they see them in the winter while they're deer hunting. And in Texas you get people say, Oh, I saw 60 turkeys.

[01:07:35] Jesse Griffiths: I'm covered up. And I'm like, you will not be covered up at them in the spring. They will disperse. Cause right. Rooped up right now. Um, so don't, don't take that as an indicator of your springtime population, cause you could have five. Yeah, I agree. Um, uh, so it, it'll be very different. Um, but you know, 

[01:07:54] Travis Bader: bear hunting and you see the deer everywhere.

[01:07:56] Travis Bader: It's like, well, nobody deer here. You come fall. Yeah. Good luck. 

[01:07:59] Jesse Griffiths: Yeah. 

[01:07:59] Travis Bader: Yeah, 

[01:07:59] Jesse Griffiths: exactly. Exactly. Um, you know, I, I love, uh, I love turkey hunting so much. Just be willing to learn, you know, and don't. Don't get dejected just take it all like sometimes they win, but when they win that means they're still out there Yeah, that's the best part.

[01:08:16] Jesse Griffiths: You know get them tomorrow get them next season somebody else again, you know, it's like Just enjoy the process And when you and I think it is because when you do Connect and when you do make it happen and you you get a nice Tom It's just it feels feel so good because you've you've put in your work.

[01:08:36] Travis Bader: Mm hmm. So If you could go back 10 years, what would you have done differently in your career?

[01:08:47] Travis Bader: I gotta stop asking questions like that because every single time everyone says the same thing, why would, why would I change a thing every once in a while, somebody comes up with something, but if, what are they, what did, um, sugar say on no country for old men, if the path, if the rule that you followed has led you here, or what gives, of what use was that rule?

[01:09:10] Travis Bader: Well, if I'm happy where I am right now. Why would I change that? 

[01:09:14] Jesse Griffiths: Mm hmm. Exactly. Um, I have kind of a dream job. I, I am involved with this restaurant that I, I love and I think that people love it and I'm very proud of it. I think the restaurant does great things. I get to interact with great people. I get time to spend with my daughter in the field, um, and I have a terrific turkey season coming up ahead of me.

[01:09:40] Jesse Griffiths: Um, wouldn't change a thing. 

[01:09:42] Travis Bader: Is there anything that we haven't talked about that we should be talking about? 

[01:09:47] Jesse Griffiths: Can we talk about turkeys yet? I like to talk about it. I'm just kidding. 

[01:09:51] Travis Bader: Yeah, we can talk about turkey support. 

[01:09:54] Jesse Griffiths: Um, no, it's, you know, we're, we're approximately, uh, five weeks and two days away from turkey season starting.

[01:10:01] Jesse Griffiths: So I'm, I'm just a little fired up. Um, so. Uh, no, I don't know. You know, the, I've got these two books out. Um, you know, I love, uh, supporting those, uh, and, you know, maybe planning on, on doing some more stuff like that. You know, just any, any kind of education, media is what I'm looking forward to. But, um, yeah, I don't know.

[01:10:27] Jesse Griffiths: I think that we've, we've covered, we've covered quite a bit. You asked me what my favorite cut of feral hog is, and I was able to, to, to say that, which is, I think, important. A good starting point for people to think about on their next, when they're booking, like you, booking your next, uh, hog hunt to Texas.

[01:10:42] Jesse Griffiths: It's just eyes on the prize. Um, be thinking about that cut coming off the grill. It's still sizzling a little bit when you're, when you're on the plane. 

[01:10:51] Travis Bader: Well, I'm thinking about it right now, I tell ya. So I'm gonna have to make, make my way back down to Texas, get myself into Austin, see what, uh, Trevor's up to, stop by Dai Due and, uh, see how to, uh, really enjoy some wild hog.

[01:11:06] Travis Bader: I'm going to make sure I put links to your Instagram to, for your books. I'll look to your website. We'll make sure we've got all of those links in there. So anyone listening for this, just look in the, uh, the description. You'll see all those links there. Jesse, thank you so much for being on the Silvercore podcast.

[01:11:22] Travis Bader: I really enjoyed this. Conversation. 

[01:11:24] Jesse Griffiths: Thank you so much Travis. I uh, I hope you can make it back down here and I really appreciate you letting come on.