Silvercore Podcast 140 Joe Eppele

https://www.instagram.com/joe_eppele

https://wildtv.ca/program/THEEDGE

https://www.instagram.com/theedgetvshow

https://www.wildsheepsociety.com

[00:00:00] Travis Bader: I've got a simple question for you. Are you happy with your life? Are you passionate about what you do? Do you wake up each morning, excited and full of energy? If the answer is yes, fantastic. If the answer is no, have you explored what you can do to change this? Would you turn your back on a large sum of money in favor of a life that aligns with your soul?

[00:00:35] Travis Bader: In today's podcast, Joe Eppele talks about walking away from the most lucrative contracts in his professional football career to pursue a lifestyle that truly brings him joy. If you haven't heard yet, you're going to want to jump on our social media. As we've teamed up with my favorite scope and watch companies, and we're giving away over 5, 000 in prizes to one lucky winner up for grabs.

[00:01:00] Travis Bader: Is this amazing SAI optics one to six by 24 millimeter scope from ATI. It's first focal plane, a limited reticle, brilliant performance, and extremely rugged. Also, this 41mm Arctic Red Maple Diver's GSAR for marathon watches. It's robust, striking, and precise. These are two amazing Canadian companies making phenomenal products.

[00:01:24] Travis Bader: You'll also win a Silvercore merch pack, so check out our social feed for full details. You better act fast as this giveaway ends September 18th at 1159 PM pacific time. If you can't wait and you want one of these scopes or watches for yourself. Silvercore club members received 20 percent off Tenebrex scope covers, 15 percent off SAI optics, 10 percent off tangent theta scopes, and 10 percent off marathon watches.

[00:01:51] Travis Bader: Now let's get on with the podcast. Our guest today is a former CFL player who's transitioned seamlessly from the football field to the backcountry with a passion for sustainable hunting and a dedication to conservation. He's made a significant impact, both on and off the field. His story is one of resilience, discipline, and an unwavering love for the outdoors.

[00:02:13] Travis Bader: Welcome to the Silvercore podcast, Joe Eppele. 

[00:02:16] Travis, thank you so much for having me. That was quite the introduction. You built me up pretty high. I better, uh, I better do my best here to live up to expectations after that intro, but I appreciate it. 

[00:02:26] Travis Bader: I tell you, you're going to have to perform now. Well, I mean, we broke the Cardinal rule that I usually have when podcasting guaranteed, whenever I have a podcast, the best conversation will happen before I press record and after I press record, because everyone's going to be at ease. Right. And so usually what I like to do is I like to sit down and kind of go into a blind, but what do we do this morning?

[00:02:47] Travis Bader: We just 

[00:02:48] came back from, I think, four hours out on the, out on the ocean, doing some crabbing and hanging out and naturally. Two gentlemen such as ourselves could not stop gabbing the entire time. So I think we would be hard pressed to find a single topic that we haven't already touched on today. 

[00:03:03] Travis Bader: You know what?

[00:03:03] Travis Bader: We're going to try and then we're going to act surprised when we talk about things that we've already talked about on the boat. 

[00:03:09] Oh, I, I think it will still be great. Cause to like, we were somewhat controlled in that we cut ourselves off as we started getting down some interesting tangents and you were very, you were far more responsible than I was, I was like, yeah, let's keep chatting, Joe, we're drawing a line right here.

[00:03:25] Taking a note. We'll talk about this later. So I think we, we have a good foundational knowledge. It'll be exciting to see how it plays out this way. I'm interested. 

[00:03:31] Travis Bader: Yeah. Yeah, me too. Well, I mean, I think the audience will let us know as well. Some people will have already known about you. They will have seen you on wild TV or seen your show, the edge.

[00:03:40] Travis Bader: And some people will know about you through your professional career, playing football for the CFL. How would you tell me a little bit about your background and we'll play it from there. 

[00:03:50] Sure. I'll, uh, I'll try and keep it somewhat short and sweet. Um, but yeah, with the outdoor side of life, I mean, I was born and raised here in, uh, Bracadale or Squamish, British Columbia.

[00:04:02] Uh, my father was a welder, um, and then he had a landscaping company. My mother ran the local mushroom buying station. Uh, but we gardened, we fished, we hunted. That's just what we did year round. That was my, my primary passion in my younger years. Um, and, and, uh, Yeah, I, I just absolutely love being in the outdoors and there's not really many places you get to be where you're exposed to more of it than somewhere like Squamish.

[00:04:24] So I was very fortunate, uh, but as time went on, um, I grew to be quite large. I mean, you and I look each other in the eye, so I'm, I'm a tall man. I'm six, eight and, uh, I started to kind of come out of people were like, Oh my God, this guy has some athletic potential. So the athletic side of my life started to take me down a different path and pulled me away from the outdoors for a little while.

[00:04:46] Um, but taught me a lot of valuable life lessons. Um, but yeah, I ended up playing college ball at Washington State, was fortunate enough to get drafted in the CFL, played five years professional football for the Toronto Argonauts, won a great cup, that was a blast. And then I realized my career was getting to a point where I wasn't passionate about the sport anymore and I wanted to find something that I was passionate about.

[00:05:06] So, I had made a lot of valuable, Life connections at that time. And I stepped away from sports and I went back to school. I got my master's, uh, my MBA marketing and advertising focus and a little bit of sales in there. Um, and, uh, started transitioning into life post athletics. Um, took on my first role managing Western Canada for an athletic supplement company.

[00:05:28] And I just wasn't happy in that industry. It was a lot of, Nothing is people that are, but it just wasn't as pertinent to my life anymore at that stage because I've moved out of professional sports. Um, and I just kept my eyes open for opportunities in the outdoor world. And that was my true passion from a very young age, as mentioned, outdoors was always my biggest passion.

[00:05:47] And I was fortunate enough to stumble across an opportunity in the marketing and sales side with wild TV. And fortunately for me, um, part of that. Career ended up opening some doors as well to, to host a show on, uh, on wild TV, which is the edge. And I'm now we're filming season six. So I've been doing it for six years.

[00:06:05] It was crazy. And, uh, yeah, I mean, it's funny. My, my athletic career was it in my mind as a child, my athletic professional athletic career was a more feasible, reasonable goal, and, uh, you know, Having a career in the outdoor space was unreasonable and unattainable. Um, and here I am fortunate enough to have lived, you know, a professional athletic career, and now I'm living like my true dream of being able to go out in the mountains and share my passion with people.

[00:06:28] Um, but I still do have to work a desk job in the background. So let's, let's be honest about that. It's not all fun and games. I do have to do a lot of desk work as well. Well, how much desk work do you, would you say you typically put in? If I'm not in the bush, I'm good, you know, eight to 12 hours a day.

[00:06:43] This is my little lab. I have my computer screen, but I'm doing a lot. It's a dealing a lot of, um, talking with companies, planning corporate campaigns, um, helping them enter the Canadian space, a lot of different stuff, a lot of boring things that people would not be as interested in hearing about. But.

[00:07:01] They don't fire me when fall comes around and I take a lot of time off for the hunting and doing all of that. So it's that, it's that balance where when I'm home, I'm working basically full time, like more than full time. I'm, I'm a hundred percent invested in that. But when hunting season rolls around, if I got to take 10, 14 days off to go do a, you know, Back countries don't cheat on, they don't bat an eye, 

[00:07:23] Travis Bader: you know, and, and I love it out here.

[00:07:24] Travis Bader: And I've been looking at the Squamish area for a while. It's like, you know, it's kind of nice. I live in Ladner. I'm in the downtown ish area. If I want to get somewhere, I'm battling traffic for hours to get there that I'm battling traffic. I've got to get back. You've got the back country right here in your backyard.

[00:07:42] Travis Bader: Absolutely. God's country. You've got a free boat launch right out here where we launched our crab traps from. Um, how does that impact your ability to do your day job and your desk job? And obviously there's the benefit that you can get out of the back country, but. Do you find there's a constant nag and pull to, uh, have you outside?

[00:08:02] Travis Bader: It, it makes it tough 

[00:08:04] to stay at my desk when I wake up and the weather conditions are right. And I'm like, I should be in the mountains and I know I have to get through a pitch or a proposal or prepare some documents or work on something there. And I'm like, but. There was a 10 degree temperature drop last night and we're getting a black tail, right?

[00:08:20] Like maybe I should go hit the mountains a bit and run some bluffs, but at the same time, it gives me the ability to still be here and work consistently. And then if, if I do need to sneak out for an evening hunt or go check trail cams or do something like that, it's, it's doable. I mean, here we are today, it's noon.

[00:08:39] We're back in my office, we've been out on the water for how long today? Hanging out for hours. So that ease of access, it's, it creates a lot of opportunity where I can, you know, kill two birds with one stone in a day, but it definitely creates that pull where, you know, it's very tempting to play hooky a little bit.

[00:08:57] Travis Bader: No kidding. And now you've got a, got a young one running around and it's going to add this whole different dynamic to where what's going to be pulling you in your time, that's, uh, quite the adventure. Absolutely. 

[00:09:08] Yeah. I mean, having having junior around, um, is an absolute blast. It's almost like I get to be exposed to the outdoors for the first time again, getting to see it all through his eyes and share those experiences.

[00:09:19] It takes me back through my childhood, so I get to relive that excitement and Having that be your child and knowing and seeing him gain that appreciation for the outdoors, um, is really special, but yeah, it definitely is a pull on time where before going away on a hunt, like a 10, 14 day hunt, I could tell my wife, I have to go.

[00:09:40] This is part of what I'm doing. She understands it a lot more than my son understands. He wants to jump in the truck, wants to go hunting with dad. That's a challenge. That's going to be a hard one for sure. 

[00:09:51] Travis Bader: So what happens if he grows up to be a six foot eight giant? Then I don't have to pack my moose out of the chicken carcass.

[00:09:59] Travis Bader: That'll be great. Would you encourage him to go down the same route? Do professional football. Would you encourage him to go to professional sports? Cause you know, we, we went to the same high school. It turns out I got in because I was a big guy and I remember it was coach Del Monte and he's waiting down at the admissions office down below and I'd written my test and I walk on in and I, I'm getting ready to go and return my test.

[00:10:23] Travis Bader: And I'm feeling pretty good. Like I wrote it well, and he stops and he says, Trav, hold on a second. Um, do you play ball? I said, well, I mean, I've played football before, right? And he says, well, will you play football for our school? I'm like, I don't know, maybe, right? He's like, hold on. I'm going to cut to the chase.

[00:10:39] Travis Bader: If you play football for our school. I'll make sure that this test gets in the right hands. I'm like, I'll play football for the school and I'll get on through. So, um, but my heart wasn't in it. My heart was not in that sort of road, even though I was built for it. What would you tell your son? So 

[00:10:57] I will absolutely.

[00:10:59] Motivate or push my son to get into something where he can lose. That's what I want him to do. So I don't care if it's football. I mean, if he's smart, I'll tell him not to play football because I've done a lot of damage to my body. I've had three reconstructive shoulders. Like this is as hard as high as I can lift my arm to the side.

[00:11:14] I can't externally rotate. They've been wanting to do a shoulder replacement since my mid twenties. I have a herniated C5 C6 slowly causing my hands to go numb. I had a whole bunch of surgeries. It's a mess, but I learned so many valuable life lessons through my athletic career. And it. I was mentioning earlier, it built me up to be at a place where I had such a platform.

[00:11:33] It created these opportunities for the outdoors. I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today if it wasn't for the life lessons I've learned, the academic career, my athletics provided me, all of those types of things. Put me in the situation. I am today. My original plan was to work construction. I was working for Peter Kiewit redoing the highway because we, we had the Olympic bid and that's what I would have been doing and nothing against that career, but my life changed completely because of the doors, my athletics.

[00:12:00] Opened up for me. Right. So, and, and I think it's important, you know, going to a sport where you learn how to lose face, those moments where you, you really want to win in the game, or you are the reason the team loses and you have to deal with that heartbreak that motivates you to want to get better and improve.

[00:12:15] And I think those are some of the biggest life lessons you can learn. So, um, one of my biggest things, I don't care if it's ping pong, if it's bad, like whatever it could be competitive knitting for all I care, if he gets in something where he can get his hopes up. Work hard, have his heart broken, learn to improve, get better.

[00:12:33] That's, that's my goal for them. 

[00:12:35] Travis Bader: That's a piece of the puzzle that for many years, I think a lot of people have been overlooking. I think there are very well meaning parents out there who want their child to do well, and this is why we see eighth place ribbons. You come in eighth place, but you still get a ribbon, right?

[00:12:51] Travis Bader: No ribbons are for the people who win or the parents will go in and they'll say, uh, they'll argue with the teacher and they'll try and get their grades raised. Yeah. And they don't realize the disservice that they're actually doing to an individual. I think that's why we have safe spaces now, because people lack the ability and the resilience that's created from, from losing there's winners.

[00:13:11] Travis Bader: There's losers, maybe, maybe a lose the foot race every single time, but man, you're a good artist. Yeah, it 

[00:13:21] forces you to either want to get better at your craft, at what you're working on, or realize maybe that's not the direction for you. What else can you excel at and get better at? I mean, you know, There's heartbreaks in life, and as a parent you want to protect your kid from that, but I think it's a selfish thing to do, and this is my opinion, so anybody out there that has a different opinion, that's your opinion, but I think it's selfish for the parent not to understand that's our burden to take on, and to help guide and coach your kid how to get through that.

[00:13:49] So for me, like the biggest things that have led to me becoming a stubborn prick, And makes me somewhat successful, somewhat, very much your quotations, somewhat successful in the back country is I know how to fail. I know how to push through adversity. I know how to do all of that because a lot of my athletic career was around not succeeding, was around being big enough, but not good enough.

[00:14:12] Oh, we'll keep working on him because he's so large. He can't teach size. But he sucks. So we'll keep working on him. I can relate to that. Exactly. So then, so then I learned how to fail, but keep working to get better, to get better. Because I was so big, people were like, he sucks right now. But if we keep working on him, keep pushing him in the right direction, he'll eventually get good.

[00:14:31] So I eventually got half decent at sports. Um, but I learned the value of failing, the value of getting back at it and improving. And then I got to see the benefit of getting to the other side. And that's one of the biggest things is I think nowadays people coddle because as a parent, you don't want to see your kid fail because for you, it's going to make you feel terrible and you're going to, you, you're going to, it's going to break your heart.

[00:14:54] Travis Bader: Um, that, and I think a lot of parents put their own, their own, uh, aspirations, their own dreams onto their child. And they. They lose sight of the fact that this is their child's life. And they're, they feel like a failure if their child fails and they don't want to, I don't know, look bad in front of other parents.

[00:15:11] Travis Bader: Whereas I'm in the same camp as you. I'd much rather see my kids fall and get up, fall and get up. And I, and I wonder, I wonder if that's just got to do with the fact that I failed so many damn times as a child and I can see the benefit to that. Yeah. You learn such a 

[00:15:26] resilience through that. And, and I think, yeah, there's just invaluable life lessons that come with that failure process and understanding the work and then the pride and the self confidence that's gained when you do work through that and you get through it and you're like, Oh my God, I'm capable of so much more.

[00:15:40] Like, think about hunting. You go on a hunt day one, you're successful on that hunt. You're like, that was a cool hunt. You don't appreciate it. You go out, you have a close call, you miss an animal, you blow a stock, something happens, you are heartbroken. You don't stop thinking about it. You think in your mind, how can I improve?

[00:15:56] What can I do to get better? And you work towards it. Then when you are successful, that success is so much sweeter because you've worked for it. You've earned it and you gain that confidence. You've gained that knowledge. It didn't just happen. You earned it. And I think that leads to so much more success.

[00:16:12] And I think that's. That's the same across the board through. Scholastics through athletics, through 

[00:16:19] Travis Bader: hunting, through anything you do. So you're playing pro ball and you decide at some point, maybe this isn't the path for me. What was it that, that pushed you? Was it injuries? Was there something burning inside your heart saying, Hey, I've got to, I got to move somewhere different.

[00:16:35] Travis Bader: What was it for you? It was 

[00:16:37] good question. It was, it was kind of a perfect storm of a lot of different things happening at the same time. Um, I had had my. Second and third shoulder surgery in a very close period of time. Um, and I had been picked up by auto in the expansion draft Toronto Argonauts. They could protect a certain amount of people.

[00:16:56] They didn't protect me cause I had two surgeries planned for that off season. So I ended up getting drafted by Ottawa and I was going to a new team. Um, my father, um, during that off season, tough subject, but he was diagnosed with brain cancer and ended up passing that same off season. So I spent a lot of time, he.

[00:17:15] I was by his side through the whole process, and we had a lot of talks and talked about, you know, quality of life, living a dream you want to do, don't push things you're not passionate about. He kept saying, we were in Ontario, he wanted to get back to BC, he wasn't physically able to travel anymore, they wouldn't even, you know, I couldn't buy him a plane ticket or have anybody fly him.

[00:17:33] So he ended up passing in Ontario and wanted to be back in the mountains, and there was, there was a lot to that, uh, I did a lot of soul searching and, and was able to gain a lot of perspective through my dad's eyes at that time. And then I sat in on the CBA negotiations and I watched how the ownership behind the CFL talked about the athletes and I really started feeling like a complete piece of meat and a cog in the system.

[00:17:56] And there was just a few things that happened. So surgeries, perspective shift through my conversations with my father and, and, and kind of seeing life through a new light and then seeing how the ownerships. They talk to you sweet in one way, but in the CBA negotiations, it's completely different conversation.

[00:18:12] So I took a look back and I was like, what am I doing with my life? Am I happy here? Was not happy. I was playing a sport that I was good at, that I was quote unquote billed for. I was never truly passionate about football the way I was passionate about other things in life, but I was big enough. So I fit, I fit the, I fit the puzzle and it worked.

[00:18:29] Can't eat size. Um, so then I looked at myself and like, well, I have a lot of great Network connections, a lot of people that if I could add value back to them, it would open a lot of doors. So I walked away from the best CFL contracts I had in my entire career. Um, I walked away from them all and I retired and I.

[00:18:49] When I did my GMAT and I got ready to go back to school and do my MBA. 

[00:18:52] Travis Bader: What did people say? Did people look at you and they start judging and say, what are you doing? Why are you leaving these awesome contracts? You know, for a guy who went and 

[00:18:59] did really well on his GMAT, I got called stupid a lot. I'll tell you that.

[00:19:05] Um, yeah, a lot of people were really questioning, you know, why I would walk away. I had worked. I was getting to the point again where I'm having my best. Contracts put on the table in front of me. And as soon as I started to saying, I was going to walk away from the sport coaches were putting way more money on the table in front of me than they ever did before, because they're like, he's not begging us.

[00:19:23] We're begging him. Funny how that works. And still like it got really tough towards the end. And I was just like, Nope, not happening. I'm at a life shift. I don't have a wife. I don't have a house. I don't have mortgage. I don't have any of these things. I don't have bills to pay. This is my time to make a career shift.

[00:19:36] And that's what I'm going to do. So I went back to school. I got my MBA and, uh, started looking for what 

[00:19:40] Travis Bader: was next in my life. So many people don't recognize that so many people don't recognize that point in their life when it's time to make that shift. And I think a lot of people look like they'll look at it, like they're running away from something as opposed to the running towards something more desirable.

[00:19:56] Travis Bader: Um, and, and I think it's. Difficult when everybody around you is probably saying like, Holy crow, like give your head a shake, like what's going on. Did you find that your circle of friends started to change? Did you find that there is social changes? 

[00:20:09] There was definitely social changes. Um, I definitely missed being around such a motivated, driven group of individuals on a daily basis.

[00:20:17] Luckily for me, I had a very good core group of individuals that were around me. So. You know, even though I wasn't on the team anymore, we stayed in contact and kept each other motivated, but there was times for myself where I was, like, I found it challenging going back to school, paying your own way through your, your master's program on a short period of time.

[00:20:32] It's challenging. Um, I had also bought into a gym at the time and I was restaffing our gym and doing a whole bunch of like financially, I was watching my bank account and I was really questioning my decisions. Um, And yeah, there was a lot of moments where I was sweating and I was like, did I really make the right decision?

[00:20:49] But I, I knew I was having a lot of injuries and I wasn't passionate about it anymore. And I wanted to make sure I stepped away from the sport on my terms and I did step away. Are there times where I look back and maybe I could have squeezed out a few more years or who knows what could have happened?

[00:21:03] That's fine. Yes, but I stepped away at a time where I was happy and. Went through some rough years with ups and downs and have to go back to school and not having that money coming in. But here I am today living, I'm fortunate where I can truly say like I'm living a career that truly aligns with my true passions, which is, it's, I feel very lucky to say that.

[00:21:25] Travis Bader: So now you take the leap and you say, I want to be outdoors. I want to be in the outdoor sphere. How long did it take to, for you to move from being a professional footballer to obviously went to school, to finding yourself back into the outdoor sphere where your heart was? 

[00:21:42] It, it was a little bit less of a direct translation transition for me actually.

[00:21:47] So when I first retired from, uh, football and I went back to school for my MBA, I bought into a gym. I co owned a gym. So I did the whole like specialist trainer thing for a while, which worked out really well just to keep me busy while I was going through my MBA and did cover some of the bills there.

[00:22:02] Then I contacted a longtime partner of mine. Uh, an athletic supplement company and I told him, I was like, listen, you guys aren't doing as well. You should be doing in Western Canada. I want to get back to Western Canada. You're going to hire me to take over that region and I'm going to bump your numbers up.

[00:22:17] And they're like, yeah, you know what? That's exactly what's going to happen. So it, it worked out. I created a position for me with this company and, um, they believed in me, I moved out back to BC and it worked out really well. I think we more than doubled or tripled their sales in the area quite well. And, and, um, it was a ton of fun and I really appreciated the opportunity with them.

[00:22:40] But I will say that I just. I thought I was gonna be really passionate about the industry because everything else in my life. So previous to football as well, I was, I was on the national track and field team. I was a thrower. I did shot and hammer. Right. Um, so athletic supplements and that side of things was always really big for me, but now it was less of a synergy for me.

[00:22:58] It wasn't something that was so big in my life. So I just, I wasn't in it. And I just kept saying, I want to look for something, a new opportunity, see what else, what other doors might open. So I saw a posting from wild TV and it was just this opportunity, basically. To start working with the network and I submitted my information and, um, yeah, it started to create some opportunities.

[00:23:22] It was a lot of complications, definitely undervalued for what I brought to the table. Sure. And again, a big leap, but I had done it all at a time in my life where it was okay and I didn't have these big commitments financially. So I spoke with my then girlfriend, now wife, uh, Kristen, and we were talking about it and she said, yep.

[00:23:38] Let's, you know, I'm okay to be by your side through this. So I started bottom level with wild TV, um, doing some hosting on the edge, which is part of it again, just testing, like. If you screw up, you're out. Like if people hate you, you're out. And that's a lot of pressure joining a cast of individual like Steve Ackman, who's had some amazing success in his career.

[00:23:58] Right. Um, and so that, and then also the sales opportunity. So then I was selling marketing and advertising on the network. Um, and then slowly over the years, I just kept my head down and kept grinding. And now I'm the director of business development with wild TV. I get to do a ton of great fun work with wild TV, cowboy channel, Canada, RFD TV, uh, the production company behind it all recoil creative group.

[00:24:20] And I'm filming my sixth season with the show. 

[00:24:24] Travis Bader: What was it like when he first stepped in front of the camera? Did it come natural for you? The exact opposite. Yeah. Tell me about 

[00:24:30] this one. I, I am a, I think we talked about it earlier. When you're a big guy, you always stick out and you're very self conscious because you don't like being the center of attention.

[00:24:39] And I'm the exact, like in school, I couldn't speak in front of two people. Like I could not speak in front of two individuals. And that's something I realized I was bad at. So throughout my athletic career, I did a lot of, um, talks at schools, right to, you know, elementary schools. And I started getting involved in groups where we go around and do motivational talks and things.

[00:24:57] So I saw it as a weakness and I developed it. Um, but still that all aside. When someone points a camera at you and says, act natural, you completely forget like, what is natural again? Like, what do I do with 

[00:25:09] Travis Bader: my hands? Yeah. We're going to 

[00:25:10] film your boots. Walk normally. You're like, start side skipping. You're like, I don't know, I don't know what I'm doing.

[00:25:14] You trip over yourself because it's so awkward and so weird to just forcefully tell yourself, okay, be natural, say natural things. So you're in the moment. You're like, I have pressure to act smart, to sound cool, to talk about things that I don't necessarily know about because I feel like I'm supposed Really knowledgeable.

[00:25:35] And, uh, one of the best things I've learned through my career is it's okay to be wrong. Not know what you're talking about. Fess up when you screw up. Fail, right? Because I've, Lord knows I've failed a lot on camera and made a lot of boneheaded mistakes. But now I'm at the point where, I think fortunately for me, I'm at the point in my career where I've screwed up so many times and so bad.

[00:25:54] I look back, I'm like, well, even if today goes completely terrible, it'll never be as bad as that day. And it makes it way easier. So it gets easier as you screw up more. 

[00:26:04] Travis Bader: Do you get ripped on, on social media when you make these screw ups? Do you see it? Do, do people? Oh Lord. Yeah. I mean, you 

[00:26:09] definitely, um, you know, as, as soon as you get in a position where more people are seeing you and watching you, uh, yeah, people rip on me.

[00:26:17] The funny thing is most of the time when people are ripping on me, it's for mistakes that I've already ripped on myself for. I've always been the toughest critic. Yeah. Um, so yeah, people like you, you go on a hunt, you make a boneheaded mistake. I can hide that and make it look like I'm a superhero on camera and I never make a mistake, but that's not real.

[00:26:32] That's not authentic. So yeah, roll it, put it in the camera. And sometimes it's because I'm worrying about what do I need to say to the camera next? Are we getting the right angle? What's happening? Are we positioning ourselves? Right. Whereas I can't be fully invested at times in the hunt. So you start thinking about too many things and you make mistakes.

[00:26:48] It happens. Um, but yeah, you. It's not all, it's not all roses and rainbows when it comes to DMS and messages, you see the odd meme 

[00:26:58] Travis Bader: rolling around. That's just part of the package, part of the package. You know, I, I'm of the mindset of you don't have people ripping on you. If you don't have people pointing out your flaws, you're probably not trying hard enough.

[00:27:08] Travis Bader: You could be doing more. Exactly. 

[00:27:11] The more people are. Yeah, bashing on you, that means more people are knowing about you, right? Nobody, what was it, there was an old saying where, yeah, nobody talks about being significant or something, right? So like, it's almost like you feel excited when people start bashing you in a weird way, but I mean, heck, I used to, my favourite thing when I was playing football was playing away games, and when we had the most haters in the stands, because the best way to shut them up.

[00:27:35] What's to be sitting there at halftime and just point at the score. Well, what were you guys saying earlier? So I loved going into a noisy stadium where people were cussing at you, shouting at you, and then walking off at the end of the game. And it's just dead quiet. I love haters. I love it. So that doesn't phase me at all.

[00:27:53] It fuels you. Exactly. It makes me like, yeah, you know, and sometimes you do get great advice from haters. Like some of these people call you out and you're like, you know what? You're right. You said that in a malicious way. You wanted to hurt me, but I'm like, Yeah. That's actually like some of the best coaching I could have got, 

[00:28:06] Travis Bader: right.

[00:28:08] Travis Bader: Oh, I like that. I got to imagine, so you take something you love, you make it a business, the business of what you love can start to leach some of that enjoyment away. And if you've got a camera in front of you and you've got a film crew, or if you've got to film yourself, can take you out of the moment.

[00:28:26] Travis Bader: Do you ever find yourself on hunts when you're like, man, I sure wish I didn't have a camera crew here with me. Yes, 

[00:28:33] I should probably feel guilty for saying that, but, um, I love Solo hunting. One of the biggest things I love about the outdoors is just your, I call it like connecting by disconnecting. So like when you get in tune with nature, when you sit out there and you're sitting next to a tree as the sun rises and nothing knows you're there and you watch the birds and the squirrels and all that start to wake up, you feel this connection.

[00:28:53] When a camera's there, it's very difficult to get that because you're trying to think of so many different things at the same time. Hmm. I'm getting better at it. The longer I've been doing this where I can, it's becoming more natural. Um, but it definitely does take away from the hunt at times. Um, I still hunt.

[00:29:11] So we film, I'll film, you know, six, seven hunts a year. I come home and there's times where I come home for a hunt. And my, my wife definitely understands that I need that time. In the bush because that's, I, I go back, I get grounded and I come home and I'm a better person and I'll come home from a hunt sometimes and things might not have gone the right way or, you know, it's challenging or, you know, Whatever it might be.

[00:29:32] And my wife looks at me and she's like, you need to go on out. Like you need to go into the mountains for a few days, go on the wine, decompress, and then come home. Cause then you're going to be the Joe we need. And, and it works well, but she recognizes it. And I certainly recognize it because although I'm hunting and we are, don't get me wrong, I I'm extremely fortunate and lucky to be doing what I do, but.

[00:29:55] It's not the same hunt experience as it would be if I didn't have the camera and we, if we weren't filming. 

[00:30:00] Travis Bader: I can appreciate that. And you know, this is the second time that you've brought up just in this podcast about your wife and the support that she's provided. Yeah. Um, where do you think you'd be if she just said, no, I, I don't think this is a direction we should be going.

[00:30:13] Travis Bader: You don't have my support on this one. 

[00:30:16] Fortunately, she's never put me in that situation. That's a very challenging question because, um, like I absolutely love my wife. She's been an amazing support for me. And I think a big part of what works so well in our relationship and why we work so well together is because we support each other so well.

[00:30:35] So if she was a type of person that wasn't supporting me in my passion, she wouldn't be my wife. A hundred percent. So that's a very, Work around way back at your question, but that's the truth about it, right? Is if she was telling me we can't do this, it's not about living the lifestyle that makes us both happy here.

[00:30:52] She wouldn't be the woman I married. So, um, you know, we both agreed to a lifestyle. It's challenging at times, but she's fully supportive of what I do. She gets it, um, and yeah, it's, it's challenging. And I, I wouldn't necessarily be here doing what I'm doing without her, but I don't think she'd ever asked me to step away.

[00:31:10] Travis Bader: So a few things that we're talking about on the boat and I'm like, okay, maybe we should stop and we can pick it up again here when we're talking, some of your sponsors, some of the people that you work with, I'm genuinely curious about on X Hunt. I tried it a few years ago in, uh, in Canada, and I think they were kind of in their infancy in the, in the Canada side.

[00:31:29] Travis Bader: Um, Can you tell me about Onyx Hunt, how you use it, what's good. What, what are your favorite pieces of that, that puzzle? 

[00:31:36] Yeah, I will say Onyx, um, so Dylan, when, like when they shifted and came up into Canada, they did a bit of a test where they were in Alberta and then they were expanding a little bit and I think they tried to push in, they might shoot me for saying this, but I think they tried to push in a little too early where they didn't realize some of the technology and the uses that we use up here in Canada is very different than what they use in the U S right.

[00:31:58] So we need certain things. Different for our style of hunting and our regulations than they had. So it was a learning experience. Right. And, um, I think the early platforms were not successful. And then one of the biggest things, so yes, we, we are partnered with Onyx, but one of the things I really liked about them is we started talking early on about what they wanted to improve on it and they came to us and said, what are the things that we need to do to tailor our services to the Canadian space?

[00:32:24] So I really appreciated that about them and they're working on it. Are all the changes overnight? No, but there's constant development on it. Um, but I have found a lot of advantages with regards to their e scouting opportunities. Being able to find different areas, set parameters where you can see certain hillside gradients, slopes, different altitude ranges, things like that you can see over the years I've been successful in these types of areas.

[00:32:48] And then. Set those parameters and it'll highlight areas on the map across the province that might be similar for that. So like something like that is really good. So you can go, okay, drop my pin every year, and then you can slide up and down like hillside gradients or sun exposure, degrees of exposure, different things like that.

[00:33:03] And it'll highlight and you go, okay, this green patch right here, that's highlighted here is where I've had a lot of my success for mule deer or black tail. And then you can zoom out and you can see other areas that are highlighted that same. Oh, that's cool. Um, so that, or there's some features where you can go on.

[00:33:18] From here, I can pull it up on my e scouting on my phone or on my computer and click on a hillside and then click a button and it'll show me based on that elevation, which other spaces in that area I should be able to glass from that hillside. So we've all done it where you're in the mountains and you go from down here, it looks like if I hike to that ridge, I can get there and I'm going to be able to glass this certain area.

[00:33:37] You've got a bowl you want to see. This app will actually, like their platform will give you the opportunity to see, will you be able to see into that area from this ridge? Oh, that is cool. So e scouting has got some really cool features and those are just small, small details. Another thing that I've really found beneficial that's very easy to get into is how accurate their tracking is.

[00:33:56] So they take a lot of pride in making sure that real time tracking is very true. So I've used it, um, bluffed out in the dark, coming out of hunts, fogged out, going through swamps and you go through, and you know, if you go a few yards, either side of your path, you're going to be way steep in water, or you're gonna be falling off a cliff.

[00:34:13] Right. And, uh, I've been in situations where I can't see anymore. It's gotten foggy, whatever it might be, or dark. And I follow that blue line and I'm walking past the same rocks. I walked past on the way in. Whereas on some of the other apps, cause I've run a lot of apps over the years. Sure. Other apps, you're like, okay, I'm on the same Ridge.

[00:34:27] I'm in the same ballpark, but I may be 20, 25 yards off my path. There are times where the difference in 25 yards means did you get bluffed out coming out? And you got to spend an hour backtracking. Like there's some sketchy stuff picking up. So that, and then also I was telling you, um, for rifle hunting or for archery hunting, When I shoot in a direction, you've quite often range that animal and you have some landmarks in that direction.

[00:34:49] So I'll pull up my phone after my shot and I'll range that spot and then I'll drop a pin at that exact range with those landmarks from where I am and more often than not, when I go to that pin, Within five or 10 yards again, cause I'm not the exact spot, but within five or 10 yards of that pin I've dropped, I've found, you know, where the animal at point of impact has dug deep and their footprints are deeper in the ground.

[00:35:13] So I've been able to track animals or start finding blood or, or do things like that or mark my arrow. That is so useful. Cause we've all done it where you look at a hillside and you're like, okay, it's by that red tree. I just got to find that right tree. You get over there, you cannot find that red tree.

[00:35:26] Not for the life of you. Bye. Bye. You drop a pin and now you go and you look at your phone, you're like, if you can trust that spot and go, okay, if I go right to that pin and. Holy cow. I'm standing by the trunk of that red tree. That's huge in my opinion. 

[00:35:39] Travis Bader: So I heard, and I, I don't know if it's a newer technology or how it communicates.

[00:35:44] Travis Bader: Uh, I heard it specifically with a pair of SIG binos with a laser range finder. I don't think it was a kilo. I think it's a different one, but it'll talk directly with on X and it will, if you range rate to it and it'll tell you don't even have to drop a pin, it'll do it for you. 

[00:35:58] Sorry, Vortex, but it's, it's a Leopold.

[00:36:02] Yeah, my buddy, actually, funny story. My backup quarterback at Washington state is high up with them. So he's, he's pretty high up with them. He was in sales and now I think he might be in the product development side, but, uh, a great guy, but he was actually telling me about that feature. Interesting. Yeah.

[00:36:17] Travis Bader: Okay. 

[00:36:18] So I am, I am a vortex guy, but, uh, so don't shoot me. 

[00:36:23] Travis Bader: Um, And then of course your hat there, you're wearing, how do you pronounce that? Kee fuh roo? fah roo. Maybe. That's how I say it. Nobody's told me to shut up. I, I've looked at their packs. I've been looking at it for a while. It's going to be the next pack I get.

[00:36:38] Travis Bader: Um, what would you suggest? You're a similar, similar size to what I'm, I am. What would you suggest for me? 

[00:36:46] Um, I've had a lot of success with Kee fah roo packs. So I used, I've ran a lot of packs over the years and I had issues with hot spots and Issues, getting a heavy load coming out of the mountain secure.

[00:36:57] Um, you know, there's always that little bit of give in a bag and a wobble, which makes you so like, if you're coming down a steep ridge, any little shifting in that weight on your back is what's going to lose. You're going to lose your balance. Throw an ankle, blow a knee, something bad's going to happen.

[00:37:10] So yes, the faroo bags have been known to be maybe a pound, pound and a half heavier when empty. But my ability to make 150 pounds on my back or 175 pounds on my back feel like a hundred pounds or, or 75 pounds. Mm. Because it's secure and pulled tight to your body is where those backpacks will shine. Mm.

[00:37:29] Whereas those lighter backpacks are really good, you're gonna have an, you know, a pound and a half less when you're going up. But when you come down. 125 pounds can feel like 200 pounds because it's like a barrel of water right on your back that's slopping and shifting as you're coming down. So that's personally for me, for my style of hunt.

[00:37:44] That's why I prefer far stuff. And it's built bomber proof. Like if you see some of the stuff, I've put those bags through . I'm a meathead and I like to push myself and, and I've loaded my backpack like stupid, stupid halls and have not been able to have any of those bags fail on me yet. But, um, my old favorite for my day hunts and my day packs was the hellbender.

[00:38:07] That easily accessible meat shelf. Like I had, I was telling you, I had a full rack of elk ribs, a bag that had backstraps, tenderloins, and some neck meat, and then a full Quarter all strapped in there at once. Plus my hunting gear, plus my gun, plus my spotter and my tripod. And I held that out with the hellbender.

[00:38:24] I've taken full DRO, strapped like cross body in there, my wife's bear, a full bear in that backpack. This year I've tested out, um, the manimal and then the new Absorica is going to really get the Absorica has got some new type of pocket options for them. And it's really versatile from a day hunt all the way up.

[00:38:41] It's what I'm going to use on my stone sheep hunt this year, or on my, I should say, goat and caribou hunt. I'll be in stone sheep country, but I'm really not planning on shooting a stone. So we'll see what happens, but it's good for, it's good for short term hunts and really good for long term. And so that's one of the promising ones.

[00:38:56] But, um, Yeah, without going too deep into it, their backpacks, basically, you can find something that works for any style, but if you're someone that does plan on having some big, heavy packouts, that's where their backpacks really, truly shine is they can do the work. They're bomber, they're bomber. They can haul they're made to work.

[00:39:17] Um, You know, like I said, you might sacrifice that extra pound, pound and a half going up, but coming down, you're going to have that security. Like you're almost going to, you're not going to forget you have 150 pounds on your back, but you're not going to have that where it feels completely separate from your body, it feels secure.

[00:39:33] If it moves, it's cause you're already moving. You're not going to have that where you start leaning out from a hillside and then your backpack. Slips a bit, because sometimes that little nudge is just enough momentum. And that's why you go down the hillside. 

[00:39:44] Travis Bader: Oh, I've been injured that way. Yeah. Um, so people will look at your social media feed.

[00:39:50] Travis Bader: They'll look at the, the show, the edge, and they'll see the highlight reels. What are some of the challenges that they're not seeing and how do you deal with them? The challenges in everything, 

[00:40:03] everything, um, I mean, from sneaking around the bush with a camera guy, an extra person or two in the field with you at all times, it's a huge challenge.

[00:40:14] Um, just the logistics of that logistics of travel. Another thing that I definitely underestimated Was I had success hunting previous to being with the show, but, and I'd go on these hunts and go, Oh my God, that would have made such an amazing show. I should have filmed that. It would have been so cool.

[00:40:30] But you forget all of the hunts that you go on that aren't successful, right? You're planning out as I, you're expected to film six or seven successful hunts in a season. That's a big season. Now, not only are you supposed to have six or seven successful hunts, You're expected to harvest animals that are quote unquote, show quality or industry standard animals, right?

[00:40:49] So you're supposed to six or seven hunts that are above the average and that are impressive hunts. I don't have the financial means or the show budget to be able to do a lot of guided hunts. Now, don't get me wrong. We do some guided hunts, but a lot of them are self guided over the counter competing against everybody else on the Hill.

[00:41:07] And you somehow have to let other, like, Let a lot of stuff walk, have these higher standards and have the success in a short period of time, because camera guys aren't cheap and all of this stuff, like there's a lot of investment that goes into the show production and you have all these people that expect you to exceed expectations, right?

[00:41:25] So there's a lot of pressure aside from not sounding like a complete idiot, which I'm really good at. Thank God we cut like 90 percent of what I say on camera. Um, but not sounding like an idiot, um, not making too many boneheaded mistakes, checking all the boxes, having that successful hunt. And then for some reason, people love to watch successful people fail.

[00:41:48] So for some reason, right, everybody wants to like. You want to be the person that's bad mouthed at the waterhole. Like, right. Cause that means you're successful, but everybody's looking there and they're like, man, what can I pick apart about what this person does? How can I knock them down a peg? How can we, so you get a lot of haters, you get a lot of backlash, but there's a lot of benefits that come from it too.

[00:42:12] Travis Bader: You know, I, A fellow, I know he's a head of training for hunter education and firearms training in the Bavarian region of Germany. And he talks about, he was telling me a different, uh, styles of hunts and what, what they consider acceptable and their different levels of training. And, but one of the things that really struck me was.

[00:42:34] Travis Bader: In North America, the hunter will go out and they'll show them on the show. And if they're successful, they're the hero and they got all the hero shots. And, but over there, he says, when the hunter is successful, it's now a very expensive endeavor because drinks are on him. He's got to be helping everybody else out.

[00:42:52] Travis Bader: The cook, the people who, uh, help set up the camp, the, uh, the guides, if they have guides or everybody else around them, and it's not the hunter that's celebrated, but rather the hunter. The support crew all around the hunter, which I thought was a really interesting way to, to look at it because the hunter would not have been as successful without all of that help that got them there.

[00:43:11] No, a 

[00:43:11] Travis Bader: hundred percent. I 

[00:43:12] think there's a big part of, um, you know, like I mentioned, I do some hunts completely solo, or I have a camera guy that comes along, just follows me in films, I've self filmed some stuff, um, which is just a completely. Different can of worms, not a camera guy, but, uh, no, there's a lot of people behind the scenes.

[00:43:29] I mean, even the footage we bring back. So the camera guys have, it's a lot of pressure for a camera guy to be able to capture everything we're doing, wake up, put up with us. I'm passionate about getting out there and hiking up and down because I'm trying to hunt an animal and like the switch and you're in the, now all of a sudden.

[00:43:45] A camera guy has to follow my stinky, grumpy butt around and somehow find the same passion that I'm able to do. So like I can get up over rich because I've got adrenaline pumping through my system. You got to have a camera guy that's equally passionate, capturing the moment and capturing all. Then you have to have a post production team.

[00:44:01] I don't do my own editing. So post production team that can take that vision. Put it onto the screen and tell the story of the hunt that you were on in a tasteful way. Mmm. Do justice to the animal, not do just a whack and stack episode. Show the appreciation, help our viewers feel like they're there.

[00:44:18] There's a lot more to it than just Go out and have a successful hunt every now and then. And it's like, you got to succeed. The network's like, they don't want you to fail ever, 

[00:44:27] Travis Bader: ever. See, I always thought that was one of the neat things that, um, and I, I'll be guilty of not watching a lot of TV. I don't watch a lot of different hunt shows, but meat eater, when they started coming out, they found success in telling the story and not always having to be successful on, on the hunt.

[00:44:47] Travis Bader: And I, and I've seen a shift and I don't know if it was meat eater or if it was other shows or it's just the zeitgeist, but being able to tell the story of the failure, I think is just as powerful as having, having that success. 

[00:45:00] I, I definitely think there's a relatable, uh, aspect to that where the average individual and most people do fail on a lot of hunts.

[00:45:08] So it's very common to have a lot of failures. So it's, it's relatable. And if there's, there's some value, so lesson learned. Um, what you would do differently next year, something taken from the experience. Absolutely. It can still go. And don't get me wrong. We do air episodes where we don't harvest enough or we don't kill.

[00:45:22] Right. That's, that's not a faux pas, but the thing is, everybody says, well, we want the, like you said, everybody wants a story. We want to see the failures as well. The ratings don't lie. People, we can see people tune in and they're like, Oh, this doesn't seem like it's going well. And then the episode airs again and nobody watches it the second time, but everybody goes, we wanted to see that stuff.

[00:45:44] You air it. Nobody sees it. Your ratings plummet. That's a good way to come off the TV. So it's, it's people say they respect and want something, but the numbers don't lie. And then I'll like, so that's, that's the cold reality of it. But like we like, I like. Being able to share the truth behind it. I screw up a lot.

[00:46:02] I make mistakes. I learned from it. I mean, for me, I feel better putting something out there like that. I feel like that's something like my son one day will want to see, like, you know what, dad wasn't perfect. He may, I mean, he'll see that a lot in one of the years anyways, but, uh, yeah, like I think that side is you want to balance the, The reality of it, the blown stocks, the mistakes, all of that stuff, but still have the success because the truth is that's what fills seats, which is a cold, dirty truth.

[00:46:35] Travis Bader: Well, that, and that's interesting because from my perspective, not really being in that industry, I would think like, you're right. The numbers don't lie and I don't see those numbers. I don't, I don't see that side of it. And I would just naively think, Oh, tell the story, put it out. You could have a whole season of unsuccessful hunts.

[00:46:53] Travis Bader: I'm not, 

[00:46:54] I'm not like. So historically, maybe there will be a transition or a shift at times, and it definitely probably just puts a lot more pressure on like really quality content or, you know, storytelling to be able to pull it through. Like look at Steve Rinella, that man, he, his background is in journalism.

[00:47:08] Right. So he's a wordsmith. He can. Talk to you about watching paint dry and you would sit there and watch him talk for an hour, right? The way he invites you into a story and describes everything is beautiful and you just can't stop right? Whereas I am a football player like like a journalist who has a way with words and a guy that used to smash his head against other guys for a living so I Don't have that Ability there.

[00:47:34] Travis Bader: So play to your strengths. Tell me about guided hunts. So I've never, I shouldn't say I've never been on a guided hunt. I think it's a fantastic way to fast track a knowledge acquisition by watching other people who, who know what they're doing. Uh, my guided hunt that I Molokai for Axis Deer. And I, I, I didn't know the rules.

[00:48:00] Travis Bader: My first out of country hunt. Figured made it might as well go with somebody who knows what they're doing. And it was, it was a very different experience to how I've ever hunted, which is, uh, hard and long and, uh, through a lot of, um, school hard knocks. Uh, what, what, tell me what the world of guided hunts and what people who are used to doing either solo hunting or hunting in a remote wilderness areas should, should be looking for.

[00:48:31] That's, yeah, like, it was an interesting transition for me with my first guided hunt. Um, But going out on a guided hunt, it is like, if you're fortunate, it's like a friend is hunt hosting you and you show up and you're like, I want to be able to offer some insight, but understand that I'm not the person that knows the most about this area.

[00:48:53] The deer in this area, the elk in this area, the moose in this area might react differently to what I typically do. Um, don't go in acting like a know it all cause they do not appreciate that. But, but be willing to like, listen, learn, Understand more, like I've learned some amazing stuff about hunting through watching these guides, different people and the way they react in areas.

[00:49:11] So I like to go in and be a sponge, but I'm not afraid at times to offer insider suggestions. But at the same time, if they tell me to shut up and sit back in my seat, Joe, like, I'm like, okay, yeah, just thought I'd put my hand up for the class, but it does make you better. And you learn a lot, um, about hunting different terrain, hunting different animals and different seasons, because they get to be out there for the entire season.

[00:49:34] We get to be out there for a week, 10 days, a short period of time. Um, so it's, it's a different experience. I've learned a lot through it. I think guides are, they have a wealth of knowledge, which is amazing and really exciting to, to, to watch. Um, but at the same time, I really enjoy my own hunts and being able to do my own stuff as well.

[00:49:54] Travis Bader: What are some of the biggest things that you've learned throughout your career with wild TV, or maybe from the guides? Biggest things I've 

[00:50:03] learned throughout the years, throughout the year, that's, that's a very vague. It's very vague. I 

[00:50:07] Travis Bader: left it open for a reason. The biggest thing 

[00:50:09] I've learned is that I do not know much about hunting.

[00:50:12] Travis Bader: I am reminded of that over and over again in myself. It's, I don't think I'll ever get to a point where I feel that I'm at a, at a level where I can call myself expert in any, any part of hunting. Cause just when I think I know a good amount, I learned that I, I'm really low on the Dunning Kruger.

[00:50:30] Absolutely. And like, when you go into a new area, that species might not act the same way. It didn't, they, they can act very similar, but there's no guarantee that it's going to be the exact same. So, and like I said, it's just understanding, truly understanding and appreciating how much I do not know. About hunting.

[00:50:46] And like I said, I went home, I think I was four when my dad started taking me out hunting and we're, you know, blacktail hunting and grouse hunting around here, things like that. But I grew up, my mom ran the local mushroom buying station. So we spent a lot of time in the bush doing all of that. We picked greens because my mom like made wreaths and garland.

[00:51:03] So I spent so much time in the bush when I was younger. I used to think I knew a lot. Yeah, 

[00:51:09] Travis Bader: we, we were talking about mushrooms and it was always one of these things in my head, these people that go out foraging for mushrooms, man, they got to be some drippy hippie. Right. And I'm like, who would want to go and do this until I finally did it.

[00:51:21] Travis Bader: And like, whereas it's been all my life, it's amazing. I'm outside, I'm connecting with nature. These it's like an Easter egg hunt for adults. It's so much fun, but this is one of your, your passions is, is foraging and mushrooms. 

[00:51:35] Yeah. I mean, I was introduced, like I said, I was introduced to it at a young age and I'm sure there's certain being raised where you get that excitement.

[00:51:43] It's like Christmas when you get to come home with a big haul of mushrooms, the whole family gets excited. You feel good. Everybody else feels good. So like there's that tie in my book. So I'm sure I get those endorphin releases. When I find them on my own, because it's just that subliminal, like you're checking that box.

[00:51:59] Uh, but, but I just truly enjoyed it. Like my mom, so it was a pine mushroom buying station. Um, there's a big market for them over in Japan. You buy them, like there was times when I was younger, we, we didn't have a ton of money growing up. Like we, it was small town living. My father worked hard. But we didn't have everything we needed.

[00:52:18] So we hunted, we legitimately hunted, fished and gardened everything to feed our family. That's what we did. Right. Um, so we shot a lot of forks, spikes, all of that stuff. It was true like meat hunters. 

[00:52:26] Travis Bader: Yep. 

[00:52:27] Um, but mushrooming, you could be out hunting, blacktail hunting or mule deer hunting, and you could happen across a good patch of pine mushrooms.

[00:52:33] And at the time, like I remember at one point, They were over 120 a pound for a class one. So like there's class one through five with pine mushrooms, whether it's a button. So the veil is all attached or partially detached and yada, yada rating scores. So 120 plus dollars a pound. And that's back when I was young.

[00:52:49] So that's, I'm getting old. That's a while ago. So that's a lot of money. Um, so now you could go on these hunts. And not only pay for the gas, so it wasn't a big hit, but like, you could come back home, there'd be food on the table, and money in the bank, and everybody was happy, so it was this really exciting time, where, yeah, and then my passion for that, it's just, it's still, even without the money, it's just fun going out there and picking mushrooms, and if you're going to be out there anyways, a lot of the best mushrooms grow in the fall, chanterelles, pine mushrooms, um, lion's mane, bear's tooth, Cauliflower, mushrooms, like all those bleats, any of that stuff, 

[00:53:24] Travis Bader: that's all out there that time of year.

[00:53:25] Travis Bader: So you had some good advice talking about if somebody wanted to get into mushroom picking and not necessarily having to be an expert in everything. What advice would you give to somebody who wants to get into it? Learn 

[00:53:40] one thing. Species of mushroom. Just pick one that you're interested in learning.

[00:53:46] Look into, there's a lot of information online regarding your location and what mushrooms are readily available in that area. There's a ton of information online and pick one mushroom that interests you and learn it. And learn it really well, learn how to identify the species you want and how to identify the similar mushrooms that aren't the ones you want, because sometimes they can be very poisonous.

[00:54:08] Um, some of them might just cause discomfort or be bitter and you don't want to mix the mushrooms because cross pollination of even the spores on the mushrooms can sometimes make your stomach upset. But learn one mushroom at a time. And you can spend a whole year, you learn one, and then in a few years, you're going to have A big amount of mushrooms, you know how to pick and you're going to feel really confident.

[00:54:26] To this day, I go out with friends and they're like, what's that mushroom? What's that mushroom? I'm like, I call them lever rights. I'm like, oh, that's a lever, right? And they're like, oh, what's a lever right? I'm like, leave it right there. Cause I have no clue what the heck it is, but don't touch it. We'll take a picture.

[00:54:38] I'll look it up later. Yeah. Um, cause I don't know what a lot of them are, but the ones I do know, I'm very, very confident. I have a hundred percent confidence can pick it. Know how to cook it. And I'm happy with that. And I know the areas to find them and everything. And I likened it earlier to if somebody wanted to go hunting and they wanted to go on their first hunting trip, feeling like they needed to understand every species ID, every sex ID, being able to age class a sheep, do all of these things before they wanted to go hunt grouse or rabbit.

[00:55:06] Forget about it. Like you can figure out what a grouse looks like and go hunt grouse and then go, okay, I'm really good on grouse. Now I want to look up rabbit and differentiate, like find the difference between a cottontail and different types of rabbits or deer or moose or, and then eventually work your way up to the more complicated ones.

[00:55:24] Cause yeah, like if you want to go pine mushrooming, the pine mushroom has a very distinct smell, very identifiable features, but there are some mushrooms in this area, like one of them is called like the angel of death. And if you eat it, if you eat like a cap, an adult can eat a cap or half a cap, go to the hospital, tell them you ate that mushroom, they're going to keep you comfortable till you die.

[00:55:45] Right. Like that's it, you're done, because it causes organ failure. 

[00:55:48] Travis Bader: So, but. That happened recently, didn't it? Just recently there is a group of, I believe, uh, they're Japanese jurists. Did you hear about this one? I I've heard 

[00:55:57] a few cases over the years, but I don't know if I've heard this specific case. No.

[00:56:00] Travis Bader: Okay. I think, what were they looking for? There was, um, because one will grow on a hardwood and one grows on a softwood, one will grow one type of tree, one will grow on a different type of tree and they, they look very similar. And I think it was the, I think it was, and I wish I knew more about mushrooms to be able to identify which is which, but, um, from what I understood, there's a family that ate them.

[00:56:21] Travis Bader: It was a lookalike and they ended up, uh, 

[00:56:23] not making it. It's, it's scary, but what I will say is don't let that scare you away from it, because once you do know, there is some very, very obvious, like the veil on a pine mushroom attaches higher up the stem, the veil on an angel of death attaches to the bottom.

[00:56:37] It's bulbous. Um, the, the, Angel of death has these little square chunks on top that'll kind of shake off. Whereas a pine mushroom doesn't, pine mushroom has a very firm stock, very pleasant smell. Angel of death stinks, like it's gross. Like, you smell it and you're like, why would I ever want to put that in, like, why would I want to eat that?

[00:56:54] Pine mushroom, you're like, I don't know if I'm going to get this back to my kitchen before I bite into it. But, you don't want to screw up on it. So, but there's easier ones start with like a yellow chanterelle, start with, you know, a cauliflower mushroom, very distinct. Start with a morel. Morel. I just picked morels for my first time this year and that makes me feel stupid because they're amazing.

[00:57:14] Oh, they're so 

[00:57:15] Travis Bader: good and they're easy to identify. And if you find a fresh burn, they're, they're abundant. Oh, I love 

[00:57:21] morels. Yeah. So they're, they're great. But yeah, there's really easy mushrooms, there's beginner level and then there's advanced and there's once. Not even necessarily advanced, but have more of a risk if you make a mistake and start with the easy ones, learn one or two a year, get really good.

[00:57:36] And before long, 

[00:57:37] Travis Bader: you're going to look like a pro out there. I think that's good advice. You know, the other one that gave me some comfort was Hank Shaw, who said, there's a lot of mushrooms that you can pick that are going to give you an upset stomach. There's only a few that are going to really do damage to you.

[00:57:51] Travis Bader: Absolutely. Yeah. 

[00:57:52] Like I talked about. Right. Again, it's one of the nicknames it has. Anyways, um, it's not overly common. I've found them in the same areas where I pick pine mushrooms, but they're not overly common and Yeah. So it's, don't let, don't let that scare you away from it. Just understand that you should appreciate and definitely put the effort.

[00:58:12] Don't go out there and just willy nilly, pick a bunch of mushrooms, throw them in a basket and go, I'll figure this out when I get home. 

[00:58:17] Travis Bader: Oh, we got a, got a friend as well. She went out for a hunt and pick some morels and chewing away and eating them, thinking these things are fantastic. Not realizing you're supposed to cook them first, right?

[00:58:26] Travis Bader: You have them raw, didn't understand why her, and I think she was out with her father, why her and her father had. Uh, uh, some GI upset afterwards. Yeah. That'll get you moving. Um, 

[00:58:37] Yeah, definitely. Certain mushrooms are more palatable, raw. Some you can get away with and some deer really like. So if you're finding like, I've had a lot of success going into areas.

[00:58:48] I talked about it earlier when we go hunting. If I go into my pine mushroom spot and my mushrooms are all chewed down to the stems, I got to keep my eyes peeled because there's deer in the area. But if I go in there and I end up with a huge haul of pine mushrooms, I get to win, win. Um, but yeah, like deer will love pine mushrooms.

[00:59:04] Chanterelles grow in blacktail spots a lot and those same mossy bluffs. Um, so there's a lot of, you're going to be there anyways, you might as well ID a few mushroom species while you're 

[00:59:12] Travis Bader: in there. It's interesting when you start, uh, realizing how interconnected everything is. Absolutely. And interconnected while they're alive.

[00:59:21] Travis Bader: And, uh, blacktail with some 

[00:59:24] pine mushroom 

[00:59:24] Travis Bader: sauteing on the side, like that, that hits the spot. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that we should be touching on because right now I'm having a difficult time differentiating between what we've talked about on the podcast and what we talked about for the last number of hours on the boat.

[00:59:42] Yeah, we've talked about a whole bunch. Um, I mean, like I said, I'm typically pretty open book. I don't. Shy away from any topics and I'm pretty easygoing. I don't have a, an agenda with us chatting today. I'm just enjoying chat with you, learning more about you and your background and, and sharing some stories and hopefully offering some insights that people can take something out of.

[01:00:01] But, uh, yeah, I mean, we've talked about parenthood, we've talked about career and misconceptions about what I actually do. We've talked about, um, you know, passions with hunting and mushrooming foraging background. Um, Yeah. I mean, it's 

[01:00:17] Travis Bader: okay. Well, he's done 

[01:00:18] pretty decent so far. I'd say, 

[01:00:19] Travis Bader: well, what if we go forward a little bit, because you know, everything will have a shelf life in its current state.

[01:00:26] Travis Bader: You can have different iterations and change it over and have something that can last longer and longer. Uh, what does future Joe look like? 

[01:00:36] Future Joe. I'm kind of, I guess I'm kind of pushing into that realm right now. Of, I'm really trying to introduce my son to the outdoors and I'm really wanting to gain, and I've said quite often, like I get asked a lot, do you really want your son to play football?

[01:00:51] Do you really want your son to hunt? I would be very proud if my son grew a passion for hunting and fishing. But as long as he likes the outdoors, I'll be happy. So if he likes just being outdoors, if he just wants to hike, if he wants to, as long as he has an appreciation for the outdoors, I'm happy. If we can share those experiences through hunting and fishing and everything, that's like the cherry on top, that's the gold standard.

[01:01:12] So far I've been very fortunate. He really enjoys getting out there. He really enjoys hunting. Like he'll come in here and grab my binos and be like, let's go hunting. Or like he sees dad's truck and he'll ask me, like, I pick him up from daycare and he asked if we can go on the boat and go crabbing or can we go hunting?

[01:01:27] Or he understands when we're going hunting and, and he really enjoys that. So, um, for me right now, it's that side of things I'm involved with, like wild sheep society, BC. I'm on their board of directors trying to make sure that a lot of our opportunities that we have now are available. To the next generation, those opportunities will be there that the wildlife will be there to enjoy.

[01:01:47] Um, so that's a lot of it. Um, and then hopefully if I do a good job at that, it means I'll get to hunt longer because he'll pack my stuff out of the bush for me. I love it. I love it. So then we don't have to talk about the next chapter too soon because he'll be there with me. And when my knees fail, he'll be like, I'll take that for you.

[01:02:04] Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, but, uh, but yeah, I don't see myself walking away from the outdoors anytime soon. If I'm, if I'm successful. This is the type of thing where, 

[01:02:13] Travis Bader: I mean, 

[01:02:13] I'll 

[01:02:13] Travis Bader: work till I die and I just love it. Joe, thank you so much for being on the Suffercore podcast. I've really enjoyed our day. I've really enjoyed the conversation.

[01:02:21] Travis Bader: Pleasure's been all mine. Anytime 

[01:02:25] folks. Thanks for having me.