Silvercore Podcast 143 Dr Teri Bryant

[00:00:00] Travis Bader: What started as a trip to support my friend and past podcast guest, Sonny Smith at his title fight professional bare knuckle boxing match in Alberta, along with other friends and past guests, Jason Budd and Chance Burrells turned into an opportunity I couldn't pass up. I sat down with Alberta's Chief Firearms Officer, Dr. Terry Bryant, to dive deep into the politics and realities of firearms ownership in Canada. Ever wonder why some guns are banned while others aren't, despite being essentially identical? Tired of feeling like a criminal for exercising your right? Want a glimpse into what the future could look like for Canadian firearms owners?

[00:00:49] Travis Bader: Buckle up because we're breaking it all down. From Alberta's fight for sensible laws to how you can take action. This episode is brought to you by the amazing people at Armament Technology. Silvercore Club members, don't forget, you get 10 percent off Tangent Theta, 15 percent off SAI and 20 percent off Tenebrex.

[00:01:10] Travis Bader: Now, let's get it rolling. I'm joined today by Alberta's Chief Firearms Officer. She's a dedicated advocate for responsible firearms ownership, bringing a wealth of experience and a balanced approach to firearms regulation in Alberta. We have the opportunity to explore her unique perspective on the challenges and opportunities facing the firearms community and how she's working to ensure fairness and safety in the province.

[00:01:35] Travis Bader: Welcome to the Silvercore podcast, Dr. Terry Bryant. 

[00:01:38] Teri Bryant: Thank you, Travis. It's a pleasure to be here today. 

[00:01:41] Travis Bader: So what, three years? Are we on your three year anniversary today? Three years yesterday. Three years yesterday. Holy crow. Three years, you've been a firearms officer here and chief firearms officer for Alberta.

[00:01:53] Teri Bryant: Yeah, it's, uh, it's been a wild ride. I had no idea what I was getting myself into when I read 

[00:01:58] Travis Bader: this. Myself personally, there's always been confusion about sort of the hierarchy within the firearms program, what it takes to be a firearms officer, let alone what it takes to be a chief firearms officer. Um, Opt in and opt out provinces has always been something that's been a little bit, uh, confusing to me.

[00:02:17] Travis Bader: And I, I know others have brought that up as well. Can you tell me a little bit about sort of how you got into this and what the structure kind of looks like? 

[00:02:26] Teri Bryant: Okay, so, uh, I got into this in a different way than, uh, most, uh, people who are chief firearms officers. So if I could just take a step back. So there's a chief firearms professor, uh, officer in every province.

[00:02:40] Teri Bryant: So there's 10 of us, plus there's one for the Northwest Territories. And, uh, most of those, uh, were appointed in a different way than me. Because, and this comes to your point about opt out and opt in provinces and so on. So opt in provinces are ones where the province has assumed responsibility for the administration of the Firearms Act, the Federal Firearms Act in Canada.

[00:03:09] Teri Bryant: And so that means that the Chief Firearms Officer is appointed by the province and the Uh, employees in the chief firearms office, the firearms officers and other, uh, individuals there are provincial employees and opt out province, uh, is a province that has chosen not to participate in the program. And that means that, uh, all of the, the chief firearms officer is appointed by the federal government and all of the employees are federal employees.

[00:03:43] Teri Bryant: Hmm. And Alberta was. Uh, an opt out province as was Saskatchewan until September of 2021, and then they, uh, there was a lengthy process before that to reach the decision. But on September 1st, 2021, we became an opt in province, which meant that, um, Um, my appointment came from the, uh, Minister of Justice and Solicitor General at the time.

[00:04:11] Teri Bryant: Uh, now we're just within the Ministry of Justice because they've kind of split that off. But, um, uh, Um, and of course it had to be approved by cabinet and everyone up to the premier. Yeah. But, um, and all my staff are provincially, uh, appointed as well. So all the chief firearms officers have the role of administering.

[00:04:33] Teri Bryant: the Canadian firearms program in their province. Of course, how much they actually do themselves versus delegating to employees depends on the size of the office. If you're Ontario or Quebec and you have, you know, millions of people you're serving, then you're not going to be as hands on. If you're looking after Prince Edward Island and you've got just a couple of people, probably you're going to be much more hands on.

[00:04:56] Teri Bryant: Whether in, in, uh, the provincial public service or the federal 

[00:05:01] Travis Bader: public service. So this is unique, Alberta is the only province that has a situation like this for the Chief Firearms Officer. 

[00:05:09] Teri Bryant: Uh, well, technically we're unique. We weren't unique for a bit. So there's, there are two, um, chief firearms officers who have the expanded mandate that I have, not since Saskatchewan and Alberta, uh, Saskatchewan went, uh, went provincial a few weeks after we did, but, uh, they've since changed their structure a little bit so that their chief firearms officer with the same title is.

[00:05:41] Teri Bryant: Um, a non political person, the equivalent of my deputy, um, who is a member of the public service. And, uh, the, the person who previously was the chief firearms officer, they now call him the commissioner of firearms. Got it. Okay. So that's Robert Freeburg. And so he has. Okay. Thanks, guys. The firearms office and a couple of other things in, in Saskatchewan, they didn't previously have a ballistic forensic lab and when they created one, they put it under that.

[00:06:12] Teri Bryant: And there's a couple of other things that's under his, uh, control there 

[00:06:17] Travis Bader: as well. In your role as a chief firearms officer. And I've actually got a, uh, I got a handy dandy little sheet here that outlines the role of a chief firearms officer in Alberta, which I thought was, was pretty neat. But I know you and I, we looked at this before, chief firearms officer with respective firearms matters in Alberta shall develop and implement.

[00:06:37] Travis Bader: Implement policies, procedures, and strategies. A big mandate shall identify and conduct studies of specific issues or a specific subject matter. And may publish the results of those studies. That's, there's a lot of trust right there. That's, uh, shall review the programs and policies of the government or other jurisdictions that may affect individuals as firearms.

[00:06:59] Travis Bader: Users and owners shall consult with and provide support to stakeholders. This is an interesting one. E shall engage in advocacy for and outreach to Alberta's firearms community. And I'll just go through the last couple. So provide information and advice to all levels of government, shall develop and implement initiatives in coordination with other departments, shall recommend the Shall recommend the establishment of advisory boards or advisory committees by the minister with respect to specific issues or a specific subject matter, and shall inform and educate Albertans, and shall carry out any other prescribed responsibilities.

[00:07:37] Travis Bader: That's a pretty broad mandate. That's a lot of responsibility. But the one that I thought was really interesting was. Shall engage in advocacy for an outreach to Alberta's firearms community. 

[00:07:50] Teri Bryant: And so, so that's actually what I, uh, you know, that, that list that you have, uh, just enumerated, that's in addition to my role as, as being responsible for the administration of the Federal Firearms Act in Alberta.

[00:08:08] Travis Bader: Mm-Hmm. . 

[00:08:09] Teri Bryant: And so. Um, that part, the part that I do that is the same as what other people do, uh, in who are chief firearms officers across the country, uh, that's a relatively small part of my time, less than half certainly. 

[00:08:23] Travis Bader: Okay. 

[00:08:23] Teri Bryant: And, uh, because there are certain things like range approvals and, and that, that I have to do personally.

[00:08:30] Teri Bryant: Um, but most of my time is on the, the other part, uh, which is the list that you've enumerated there, particularly. To shorten that list part of my job is not just to administer the law as it is now But to figure out what it should be and Advocate to make changes. And so part of finding out what it should be is, as you've mentioned, conducting formal studies and things like that.

[00:08:59] Teri Bryant: And we've got a couple of those, uh, underway. And another part of it is, uh, consulting with Albertans to find out what their problems are. 

[00:09:09] Travis Bader: Now 

[00:09:09] Teri Bryant: many of those are things that I was aware of before. But, you know, no one, Uh, in the firearms community is very, very diverse, right? It includes people who are Olympic target shooters.

[00:09:21] Teri Bryant: It includes, uh, ranchers, uh, who have a rifle in the pickup truck for, uh, protecting their livestock or things like that. And so I've been a member of the firearms community all my life. So I have had exposure to many of these things, but more to some than others. And so, uh, every weekend, basically I am out at some kind of event.

[00:09:44] Teri Bryant: Uh, whether it is a gun show or, um, a shooting competition or the annual general meeting of an organization so that I can hear straight from Albertans what the issues are that they face. And also that gives me an opportunity to educate them a little bit about what our office does Um, what the federal government does, what we are, as an office are doing about what the federal government does, uh, and, uh, things like that.

[00:10:15] Teri Bryant: So, uh, so that's a, that's a very, um, It's a part of the role that I very much enjoy because it gets me out talking to Albertans, particularly firearms owners, uh, who are, you know, that's the community. Those are my people, as I always say. Uh, and it also means that, uh, I get to go all around the province. So I travel over 30, 000 kilometers a year by car around the province.

[00:10:43] Teri Bryant: Um, and so I visited everywhere from Milk River, 10 kilometers north of the U. S. border, to Fort Mac in the north, from Grand Prairie and, and Beaver Lodge and, and, uh, Coleman in the west to, um, you know, Medicine Hat and Consort and Provost, uh, in the east. So, um, there's, it's, it's enabled me to see much more of the province than most people see and.

[00:11:12] Teri Bryant: Because I also, my, all my permanent homes in Calgary, I have a, an apartment in downtown Edmonton, um, I get to see a lot more diverse aspects of Alberta than most people do, because I see the rural areas, I talk to rural people, I have this apartment in Edmonton. In downtown Edmonton, where I see some of the challenges that people in an urban settings face.

[00:11:36] Teri Bryant: So it gives me a very diverse perspective on what Albertans are experiencing and what they need. And it gives me the opportunity to talk to people from a wide range of backgrounds. 

[00:11:49] Travis Bader: Now you come from a long lineage of firearms owners and users and collectors. And I, as well, um, From a very young age, being exposed at the gun shows and in the firearms community and watching the different rules and regulations as they come into place.

[00:12:09] Travis Bader: Uh, there's been a growing sort of us against them sort of mentality and like, why are they picking on us? Um, uh, sort of mindset within the firearms community. Was that a challenge for you to overcome when you were, when you first came into your position as a chief firearms officer? I know now you're welcomed with open arms, but were you looked at as the enemy when you first came in?

[00:12:33] Teri Bryant: Well, uh, so there were certainly a lot of people in the community that knew me, like particularly those around Calgary and in the, in the collecting community. And, um, so those people knew me and they were happy to see me take the job. Of course, there are a lot of people in the firearms community, um, who were in other areas of the province who may not have known me as well.

[00:12:57] Teri Bryant: And a lot of people in the firearms community that have a more tenuous connection, like they're not plugged in as much, uh, because I know for people like you and me every day we're looking at and seeing what's the latest thing. We get all kinds of, you know, email blasts from the different organizations about the latest court decisions and challenges and, and things like that.

[00:13:20] Teri Bryant: But a lot of people aren't that connected. And so what I did to start off with was, uh, initially using my own vehicle, my own materials and my own, uh, you know, paying for it myself, uh, to start with, um, I went to gun shows, which is a place where a lot of different parts of the firearms community intersect and, uh, set up a display with some firearms that I thought would attract attention because I have.

[00:13:49] Teri Bryant: Some firearms that tend to attract attention. I like to have the coolest guns at any gun show. Um, and so a matter of opinion, but I'm not perhaps I'm not a totally unbiased judge of that subject. Yeah. But what would happen then is as people are walking by. They would see the, you know, I had, uh, signs and they would see, Oh, here's some cool guns.

[00:14:13] Teri Bryant: And then I would give me a, once soon as they paused it, bang, I can like, you know, like, like an insurance salesman or something, you know, I jump on it and, and, uh, and make my pitch and engage in a conversation. And then they realized more and more people realized that. Um, you know, we were doing things differently that, uh, we do have to administer the federal law.

[00:14:37] Teri Bryant: We don't get to make the law ourselves yet, um, but, um, we do have, it can make a big difference in how things are done because, uh, I believe that, uh, most people are, are reasonable and if you, uh, approach them in a reasonable fashion. And then you'll get a much more positive reaction. So we try not to. Uh, you know, bang on the table and say you have to do this or you have to do that.

[00:15:12] Teri Bryant: We educate them about what the law is and what potential consequences are if you, if you don't do that. But we also point out that many of these things, many aspects of firearms regulations in, in Canada don't make sense. And so we talk to them about that, recognize that we, yes, we know that it doesn't make sense that this particular firearm is classified this way and this one that's the same is classified a different way.

[00:15:40] Teri Bryant: Um, so we, you know, that we understand and sympathize with the problems there, but not just that we sympathize, but that we're actively engaged in trying to change that. And that I think has resulted in a totally different reception. Uh, want us to come to gun shows. And now, of course, we have a much more elaborate, uh, way of participating.

[00:16:04] Teri Bryant: So I have some fancy table cloths and pop up banners. And, um, ever since the federal government required that, uh, sellers of nonrestricted firearms verify the validity of the, the pals of, uh, buyers, um, That was very hard for people to do in the gun show environment. So, uh, I have my staff come there and we've worked out an arrangement with the registry so that we can provide that service in person at shows, which is something that doesn't happen everywhere and happens in few places, um, elsewhere.

[00:16:40] Teri Bryant: But that's what we needed to do to be able to, uh, ensure that gun shows were able to remain compliant with the law and that they were. Uh, there was no, there wasn't going to be an easy way for the feds to shut them down. 

[00:16:56] Travis Bader: You know, and you, you bring up a few different points here, and I'm trying to think of what should be the most logical for me to, to, uh, to move from, but maybe, maybe the education piece there.

[00:17:04] Travis Bader: And I, I know I've talked on the podcast before about the firearms officer who explained to me about normative process and I, you know, we've chatted about this as well. Uh, just like you were saying, why, why is something deemed as one classification and it's the same as another firearm and it's deemed in a different classification.

[00:17:25] Travis Bader: And there was a point of, uh, confusion around the classification of firearms that I was in possession of through my business. And the firearms program had came in, they looked at them, they had, uh, verified them, a couple of firearms officers. And they said, Travis, you have to register these as this type over here.

[00:17:44] Travis Bader: And I'm sitting there all paranoid and nervous. And, uh, like, what are you trying to entrap me into? Because it's, the law says different. I look at a different, but I tell you what, if you want to do it, you guys proceed, you go ahead and you register it as you see fit. Right. And they said, no, no, we want you to do it, Travis.

[00:18:02] Travis Bader: And I'm like, oh man, what are they trying to do here? So. Talked to my MLA. She talked to Minister Blaney and they said, this doesn't make sense. Just tell him to hold off. We're discussing it at the ministerial level. I mentioned this to the firearms officer when they, uh, this fellow was in my business and he said, we don't give an expletive.

[00:18:23] Travis Bader: Uh, what minister Blaney says, I don't give an F what the MLA says, they don't make the laws we do. And he's explained to me, it was done through a process of normative, normative process. Um, now that's one individual talking out of his pocket, talking about, uh, his opinion, but it's easy to paint the general mass by the actions of the one.

[00:18:48] Travis Bader: Um, but there was an apology that came through really quickly the next day, but it brought to mind the. Issue of normative process. He says, you know, if we do things in a certain way, if there's layers of ambiguity within the law, the courts will turn around and say, well, how's it generally done? How's it accepted?

[00:19:07] Travis Bader: And that's where I see the value of this education, both for the general public, the firearms community, as well as for the firearms program, for everyone to be singing from the same song sheet, to understand the struggles that the firearms community has, to understand the challenges. Which you have a very, you've got your finger on the pulse there and for the firearms community to understand the struggles and limitations that the firearms officers have to deal with.

[00:19:31] Travis Bader: And if we're able to sing from the same song sheet and create a normative process that works for public safety, for everybody, and was able to navigate the ambiguity of all the, the hodgepodge of firearms laws that we have, I think that's where the power of discussions like this really comes into play.

[00:19:52] Travis Bader: Um, if, since you are intimately aware of the firearms community, both as prior to being chief firearms officer, as well as even more so now that you're, you're in this position, you're What, what are some of the common things that you see that people have contention with that maybe they're approaching it in a fashion that's not serving their best interests and maybe there's a better way that it could be approached?

[00:20:19] Teri Bryant: Well, I think the main thing is to, um, to understand that at least in, in our case, we, our goal is to preserve the firearms community. Of course, our number one goal is public safety. Sure. Sure. But, um, I actually believe we need to preserve the firearms community in order to maintain public safety. And the reason for that is that every country has a firearms culture.

[00:20:50] Teri Bryant: And um, so the firearms community in all its different aspects, whether it's gun shows, uh, people who are, uh, training people to, to, uh, get their hunting license, people are training to get their firearms license. Um, all of these people are gun clubs that organize shoots and so on, um, all of these people are contributing to forming a culture.

[00:21:17] Teri Bryant: And uh, I feel that the firearms community is a very positive influence. It can be a very positive influence and we can shape that a little bit by helping them to understand, you know, is required to comply with certain rules and things like that. But, uh, if we create a firearms culture. that is based around responsibility and respect and safety, then that's going to pay huge dividends in terms of, uh, of public safety.

[00:21:50] Teri Bryant: And on the other hand, if you got rid of the firearms community, like somehow you managed, uh, some, some Mandarin in Ottawa waved a magic wand and we all went away. Uh, And I suspect there are a few that might want to do that, uh, but, uh, if they suddenly did that, there would still be a firearms culture in Canada, but how would that be shaped?

[00:22:15] Teri Bryant: It would be shaped by, uh, like ultraviolent video games and movies coming out of Hollywood. And, uh, social media posts by gangbangers and things like that. And that would be how people thought about firearms and that would not contribute to public safety because then if people saw a firearm, they'd, Oh, this is how you do it.

[00:22:37] Teri Bryant: You wave it around like this and you go like this to look tough and this kind of thing. And. Uh, and so, uh, the firearms community in all its aspects and all the people who work very hard, you know, using their own free time, often their own resources to educate people. Um, you know, people who, uh, for example, at a collector's show are educating people about the historical value of firearms.

[00:23:05] Teri Bryant: And the role that they have played in the evolution of our society and the technologies of it, it creates a different mindset around them. And that's something that contributes very greatly to public safety and that we want to continue to encourage. 

[00:23:21] Travis Bader: Yeah. You know, I find like different, different groups will attract different types of people.

[00:23:27] Travis Bader: The firearms community I find tends to attract a lot of independent minded sort of individuals. Yeah. I was teaching a class of training instructors to teach a basic firearm safety course. And just for fun, I, I ask them like, aside from guns, like, what are you into? And by and large, everyone comes back with, well, I'm into scuba diving, or I'm into rock climbing, or I'm into collecting, or I'm into, and all their other activities that they're listing off are, aren't team activities, they aren't group sort of activities, and, uh, I find, uh, To a degree that can fragment the firearms community because everyone's like, just leave me alone.

[00:24:08] Travis Bader: Let me do my own thing. And then they will also try and lean on other organizations to make things, to affect sort of change for them, uh, whatever that might be. And they sort of, uh, give control over to a third party without realizing the amount of personal agency each individual firearms owner actually has when it comes to affecting change within the organization.

[00:24:34] Travis Bader: Within the community, within the culture, the laws, and dealing with the firearms program. Um, I, I know there's a lot of very, uh, frustrated individuals when they talk about the, uh, the OIC, the recent ordering council, or they talk about the, the handgun freeze. Uh, what can individuals do to help? support some common sense legislation.

[00:25:01] Teri Bryant: I'm glad you asked that because this is a point that I make quite frequently and just goes beyond, you know, everybody has a bit of a personal philosophy and part of my personal philosophy and my approach to life. is being an engaged citizen. And, so, being a citizen, it isn't just a matter of, well, it says nationality Canadian on my passport, or something like that.

[00:25:25] Teri Bryant: It means that you are engaged in, uh, creating the society that we all live in. And, so, people are very keen on expressing things about their ideas, about their freedoms, but they also have to play a role, have to be, have to, Accept responsibility for the way society is. And that means if you're going to play an engaged role, then you will The benefit of that, I mean you'll get to meet other people that are like minded, but it also means you're You will have less frustration because I mean, I was more frustrated before I had this job, uh, because, uh, although I was active in a number of ways, I didn't have some of the abilities to do things to accomplish things that I have now.

[00:26:16] Teri Bryant: So I wake up every day and I'm energized because I see possibilities to do things. And some people, also, I'm not the only one who recognizes this. I have a common question. One of the common questions that I get asked at, at, uh, gun shows and other events where I appear is, well, what can I do? You know, I'm, I'm not a, uh, chief firearms officer.

[00:26:41] Teri Bryant: I'm not a former professor. I'm not this, I'm just, you know, You know, they say just this, and, um, but what can I do? Well, I always say there's three things that everybody should be doing. So, as a preface to that, the firearms community has to recognize that we're a minority, okay? In Alberta, for example, uh, the population's about 5 million, maybe 3.

[00:27:06] Teri Bryant: 5 million adults. There's 360, 000 people who have a, a, uh, possession and acquisition license. So that means we're about 10 percent of the adult population. Of course, some of the, you know, that's a, a wife may use her husband's guns or vice versa. So, so there's more users. You know, it gives you some idea of order of magnitude.

[00:27:28] Teri Bryant: This shocks some people because when they, uh, they're thinking, Oh, all my friends own guns. So, you know, but, but that's not, that's not, you know, the overall reality. So as a, as a very small minority and one that is not well understood because in today's society, even in Alberta, which is a very pro gun province where firearms have, have Um, uh, we're a minority, a minority in the United States.

[00:27:54] Teri Bryant: My wife and I have always played a very important role in our traditions, in our history, in our culture, in our economy. Um, even here, we're a small minority, and a lot of people here, especially because most of the population growth has happened in our big cities, don't have much firsthand exposure. So what that means, because we're a minority and we're a misunderstood minority, that we People either have no opinion about us or that are not a positive one, uh, then.

[00:28:27] Teri Bryant: We need to be highly mobilized and you know, they may not a hundred percent agree with every perspective that you have But they'll recognize the legitimacy of your concerns. Mm hmm. And that's a really important thing. 

[00:28:43] Travis Bader: Yeah Yeah, I think the ability to articulate those concerns in a way that, uh, makes people aware of the broader implications, like if it's, if they're concerned about the firearms confiscation, uh, that's one aspect of the concern, but the other aspect is can we Confiscating, uh, personal property just through ordering counsel without due process, which could affect a broader, a broader population.

[00:29:12] Travis Bader: Maybe that's one way to help, uh, win allies out there. I know the Canadian Federation of Independent Businesses has taken the, uh, the amount of money that's being spent as a, as a way to try and win hearts and minds. We don't care really one way or the other about the firearm side, but. The amount of money that's being diverted into something that isn't showing any net positive effect, this should be addressed.

[00:29:37] Teri Bryant: Well, there's, there are aspects of the firearms issue that should be of concern to everyone, whether they own firearms or not. So you've alluded to one of them, which is the whole property rights issue. Um, property rights are not particularly well protected under, under Canadian law. Right. Uh, in fact. Some would say they're barely recognized, right?

[00:29:59] Teri Bryant: Um, but, uh, you know, that's an important thing for everyone that if, if, uh, the federal government establishes the precedent that they can come along and take your property when you have done nothing wrong, and when you are posing no risk to society, and when they have presented no evidence that the property they want to take.

[00:30:21] Teri Bryant: is of any danger to anyone, then that's a very dangerous precedent. And there are similarly many other aspects of, uh, federal firearms policy that people should be gravely concerned about. I expressed this right after I took office. Um, I wrote a letter as early as November. I remember I took office in September, and I wrote it off as early as November, for watching.

[00:30:46] Teri Bryant: Um, I wrote a formal letter, which then was, you know, had to work its way through and get, uh, get approval to go out pointing out the huge opportunity cost. Opportunity cost is, it's a fancy economics term for what, what else could you do with the money? Okay. Right. And so, you know, the, with the, this firearms confiscation plan, uh, They've, first of all, they've lowballed what the cost is going to be, um, and then they've also, uh, not recognized the alternative uses that that money could fit.

[00:31:24] Teri Bryant: Like I said at the time that I thought probably it would cost, you know, a lowball estimate I thought would be a couple of billion dollars. And So, yeah. Uh, so, I mean, so far they've admitted to spending, I say admitted because who knows how much the actual figure, but they've admitted to spending 42 million and they've accomplished nothing.

[00:31:43] Teri Bryant: And so, um, if they are to, uh, to carry this out all across the country, then it would be, uh, an enormous expense when, you know, we could use more police officers, more border agents. So, if you want to take a broader look at some of the underlying problems that that generate violence. You could hire more social workers or addiction counselors, or, you know, people to get, uh, uh, gang members out of that destructive lifestyle.

[00:32:14] Teri Bryant: So there's so many alternative uses of that, uh, that money. And. Uh, you know, I know there's, there are certain politicians that believe there's a bottomless well that they can always just print more and the budget will balance itself. Uh, but you know, that money has to come from somewhere. And so I think it's, it's important to people recognize those, those, uh, alternative uses and also the corrosive impact that programs like that, that are clearly useless and that are, uh, attacking.

[00:32:50] Teri Bryant: people's property rights and, uh, their other freedoms. Uh, it's important that people recognize that, uh, those, those, uh, actions have consequences beyond finance. They undermine confidence in the system. And, you know, every society, every country has to have Um, people have to have confidence in their government, and all around the world we see that that is being undermined, that people are lacking confidence, and there's all kinds of contributing factors there, some point to social media or one thing or another, but governments have to look long and hard at themselves.

[00:33:34] Teri Bryant: And see whether their actions are undermining public confidence or reinforcing 

[00:33:39] Travis Bader: it. 

[00:33:40] Teri Bryant: And that's one of the things when I, when I get philosophical, what I think about my job is I want to help restore confidence in government, not as the solution to everything. We have to have some level of government. You know, you can't have a society that's just total anarchy, you know, people running around doing anything they want to anybody they want without regard for the consequences.

[00:34:07] Teri Bryant: But the way that we will get the kind of government that we need to have is when the people who are involved in government recognize their responsibility to help reinforce confidence in the system. And when they do that. Then other people will not shy away from public service. They'll say, yeah, I want to be, I want to help be part of the solution, not the problem.

[00:34:36] Teri Bryant: So I'm not just going to sit here and carp. I'm going to get involved and I'm going to help to create the kind of government that I want to see our country have. And it's only when we all do that, that we will get the kind of government we want to have. And I think that firearms owners are uniquely positioned.

[00:34:57] Teri Bryant: to help in that process because they have been, uh, sort of the canaries in the coal mine for many of the attacks on individual liberty and, uh, on our, On the credibility of our, of our system. They're the ones who are suffering this first. And so they see it. And if they get involved, they can hopefully prevent this sort of corrosive rot from, uh, eating away at our system so much that it becomes irreparable.

[00:35:34] Travis Bader: I don't 

[00:35:34] Teri Bryant: think anybody wants to see that, but if we don't want to see it, we've got to play an active role. In bringing about what we do want. 

[00:35:45] Travis Bader: So I have some theories as to why firearms owners have been the canary in the coal mine. You know what, I actually, what I'm going to do is if you can, I'm still getting some plosives, I'll be able to edit them out.

[00:35:55] Travis Bader: But if you can like the whole thing, I'll bend, if you can just pull it to the, so you pull it to the side and then back in, or it should bend this, this whole arm bends. There you go. 

[00:36:06] Teri Bryant: How about like that? 

[00:36:07] Travis Bader: Okay. And then closer to the mouth, but, uh, not in front. Okay. Talk one, two, three. Okay. 

[00:36:13] Teri Bryant: One, two, three.

[00:36:14] Teri Bryant: Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers. 

[00:36:16] Travis Bader: Okay, I think we got it. 

[00:36:18] Teri Bryant: Okay. 

[00:36:18] Travis Bader: Okay. Sorry. No, no, it's okay. We just, um, I'll, I'll, I'll edit that one. I'll tell you what I'll do. There you go. Gives me a spike. I can see for this one. 

[00:36:27] Teri Bryant: Okay. 

[00:36:30] Travis Bader: So I have some theories as to why firearms owners are the canary in the coal mine, so to speak.

[00:36:35] Travis Bader: Um, and I could, I could let you know what they are, or do you have theories as to why that might be? 

[00:36:42] Teri Bryant: Uh, well, I think if you, if you look historically, the people who become the, uh, The, um, uh, scapegoats for problems are typically people who are misunderstood. They might be misunderstood because they're from a particular ethnic or racial or religious group, or in our case, because they are members of a group who do an activity that many people don't understand.

[00:37:12] Teri Bryant: And so if you want to get something. Uh, if you want to eat away at something, it's easy to, it's easiest if you use, uh, precedence with people who are not well understood, because it's easier to make them scapegoats. 

[00:37:29] Travis Bader: Right? 

[00:37:31] Teri Bryant: And so, since we're not well understood, it's easier to make us scapegoats. And so, since people don't understand, well, why does somebody need to have a gun?

[00:37:40] Teri Bryant: Or if you have a gun, why would you need two? 

[00:37:43] Travis Bader: Well, 

[00:37:43] Teri Bryant: people don't understand. I mean, my answer to, well, why do you need more than one gun is, well, why does a mechanic have more than one wrench? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, if one works. There are tools and, you know, I mean. If you get a Crescent wrench, it could do a lot of wrenches, but it's not as good as, as an actual wrench that's a nine sixteenths millimeter or, or whatever.

[00:38:06] Teri Bryant: So that's why mechanics have, have lots of wrenches. And that's why people who want to do different things with guns have more than one gun because different ones are good for different things. 

[00:38:18] Travis Bader: Yes. 

[00:38:19] Teri Bryant: And, uh, so, so anyway, I think it's, you know, at least partially that kind of The fact that we're, as people who are misunderstood, it's easier to scapegoat us.

[00:38:29] Teri Bryant: And once you establish that precedent, then you can gradually, uh, you know, expand it out. And next thing you know, the person who thought, oh, they'll never come for me, realizes that That they are coming for you and, you know, like in the case of the, of the gun grab, um, they go after rifles that, uh, and other firearms.

[00:38:51] Teri Bryant: There's lots of things actually that aren't even in the modern sporting rifle category, but they go after modern sporting rifles because it doesn't look like a traditional gun. And why would you, why would you want to have that? Why do you. Need to have that. But if the federal government succeeds in establishing a system, a procedure, an infrastructure for, uh, confiscating those firearms after years of work and many, well, by that time, it'll probably be at least hundreds of millions just to set up that infrastructure.

[00:39:27] Teri Bryant: Mm-Hmm. . Do you think they're only going to use it once? No, they'll have a list every year. And so that's why this, this, uh, nefarious tendency has to be nipped in the bud. 

[00:39:38] Travis Bader: Mm 

[00:39:38] Teri Bryant: hmm. And, um, you know, the other thing about this, this particular, Um, Pro set of prohibitions was it broke all of the sort of unwritten rules, right?

[00:39:50] Teri Bryant: The unwritten rule was when they prohibited things, people would get grandfathered and they could at least keep their stuff, 

[00:39:57] Travis Bader: right? 

[00:39:57] Teri Bryant: And this violated that trust, 

[00:40:01] Travis Bader: you 

[00:40:01] Teri Bryant: know, so, um, this was very, this set of measures was especially corrosive because it not only, uh, attacked people who. We're not contributing to the problem, but it also undermined all of the assumptions that people had made about how things would be done fairly.

[00:40:26] Teri Bryant: And so, um, I think that, that was a, a, a major blunder. Um, and I, the positive aspect of that, I suppose, is when people make really major blunders, it's easier for other people to recognize that they are blunders. Sure. And, unfortunately. You know, the people who are involved in that keep doubling down and thinking that, uh, well, if we just spend a little bit more money and, or a lot more money, uh, and more time, it's going to, but, you know, uh, a bad idea is a bad idea.

[00:41:00] Teri Bryant: You dig yourself in a hole. The best solution is to stop digging, to abandon this whole idea and recognize that this was a bad idea. Uh, a bad idea from the start and a bad idea poorly implemented. 

[00:41:15] Travis Bader: Yeah. There, there's two thoughts on the, they got the whole dig thought. Okay. Best thing to do, stop digging that hole, find your way out.

[00:41:21] Travis Bader: The other one is, okay, you found yourself into the darkest part of the forest. And they say, well, just keep pushing through it. There's going to be light at the end of the tunnel. And maybe they're thinking that my theory on it is, I mean, the people who come up with these ideas and laws, there's going to be those very few who are just fanatical and they have.

[00:41:41] Travis Bader: They're not open to reasonable persuasion, but most of them are going to be intelligent. Most of them can look at the numbers. No, most of them can look at the statistics and I've always thought it was more of a process of just being able to paint your opponent in a certain way and to use something that's in the public mind is.

[00:42:00] Travis Bader: Uh, perhaps a negative and say, we're going to do something about what the public perceives as negative and our opponent over here, all they want to do is more negative, right? And I've, I've always thought that that was sort of that, that had to be for the logical common sense person. The reason why they'd be pushing something forward was wasn't so much that they actually believe what they're doing is going to affect.

[00:42:23] Travis Bader: A positive change because clearly, clearly the statistics and the outcome isn't showing that, but it's how to show the other person, paint them into a negative corner so that they can use that for, um, their own political means. And recently I was asked to be on a podcast called the horrible people podcast and, uh, uh, Jen McDonald, Nii Gadbois, was the, is a host of that one.

[00:42:47] Travis Bader: She's putting it out and. I said, I love the name. I love what you're doing. That's going to be catchy. People are going to look at that, but what's your goal here? And she says, well, you know, I want to show how the firearms community is shown in a negative light and how the real story behind people, we're not horrible people and we're members of the community.

[00:43:06] Travis Bader: I said, well, that's all fantastic. But who's going to listen to this, right? And really the people who are going to listen to it is the firearms community. And it's going to be a closed echo chamber of people chanting to themselves. And yeah, we're, we're really good. There needs to be a means for, uh, the firearms community to reach the broader general public.

[00:43:30] Travis Bader: And I think what you brought up there, it was what I brought up with her. I said, what if you, instead of, you know, Just dealing on the gun side of things, dealt with othering and how people are othered. And you can have people from all different backgrounds, um, religious beliefs, ethnicities, whatever, that have been othered and look at how the media portrays them in a politically expedient way.

[00:43:55] Travis Bader: So now you're gaining the support of other groups. You're showing the process of othering and what that looks like. I, I might be biased, but I think the power of the, um, the collective masses through the media is way more powerful and affecting positive change than any legal recourse that we possibly have.

[00:44:19] Teri Bryant: Well, I think, I think, um, you know, that's, uh, rec helping people, other people outside the firearms community to recognize the importance of the precedents, the negative precedents that are being set here is a very important thing. Yes. Yes. And. Um, so that's, uh, that's why in Alberta, I think. Uh, there are a lot of people who, the arguments are more receptive, more well received here in Alberta.

[00:44:48] Teri Bryant: And that's because many of the issues that are touched on are ones that are important to people, even if they're not affected directly by them themselves. So, you know, one of the things about Alberta, you know, uh, we're known for our, uh, our Uh, emphasis on property rights and, you know, people might wonder, well, why is that?

[00:45:11] Teri Bryant: And if you think about it, historically, it makes a great deal of sense because when Alberta was being settled, how did we make our money? Well, agriculture, ranching, you need to have property. You've got land, you've got livestock, uh, you've got equipment. Um, and you know, even if you're, uh, not ranching, but you're, you know, you're, you're, uh, seeding crops, you need, uh, lots of equipment.

[00:45:36] Teri Bryant: So that property is your livelihood. It is, there's a very direct connection between property rights. And your livelihood. And then subsequently we had the oil boom and, and, uh, you know, which has, of course it has ups and downs over time, but in oil as well, your property rights and your, um, you know, your, uh, the royalties that come off of that has helped to support the profits.

[00:46:03] Teri Bryant: So property, uh, the recognition that property is an important part of what enables us to be prosperous and also.

[00:46:24] Teri Bryant: And so, um, people may not recognize, uh, or even if they're a gun person, they might say, well, yeah, but I don't have an AR 15, uh, you know, well, yeah, but if they take that away, how long, you know, before they take the other ones away and then how long before they decide that, You know, well, do you really need to be owning land?

[00:46:45] Teri Bryant: I mean, it isn't, shouldn't that be owned by the state so they can, we can feed the masses with it? Well, see how well I, I studied in the Soviet union, so I know how well the whole collective farm thing works, you know, um, uh, so, you know, here in Alberta, people are much more receptive to these kinds of concerns.

[00:47:06] Teri Bryant: And I think in that regard, we can be a beacon for the rest of the country because, you know, If you look across, you know, I pretty much confine myself to my little bailiwick, which is the firearms issue, but across a wide range of issues, Alberta has not been afraid to challenge the, uh, the received wisdom, the, the, uh, the popular ideas of the day and come up with ideas that Often end up working better, and if they don't work better, then we abandon those and come up with an even better idea because we're not afraid to be different.

[00:47:45] Teri Bryant: And that comes from that independent mindset that we have because we've grown up as a society of people who were farmers and ranchers and people who are living on their own. You know, you talk to some people, they live in some of the more remote parts of the province. They come to town every once in a while, otherwise, I mean, the reason they're out there is they want people to leave them alone.

[00:48:10] Teri Bryant: And you know, that, that when the federal government keeps coming in and coming up with ideas that are intruding on their ideas, they've moved somewhere where their activities don't have any impact on anybody. They, they just want to be left alone. And when the federal government won't leave people alone, but keeps badgering them and coming after them, even when they're not doing anything, that really rubs Albertans the wrong way, you 

[00:48:35] Travis Bader: know, You are a very strong person and you stand up for what you know to be true, which takes a lot of courage.

[00:48:43] Travis Bader: And I should imagine, do you find you get much flack or heat for Um, stepping up and saying, I don't agree with this policy or I don't agree with this process. There's a better way that we can do it. 

[00:48:58] Teri Bryant: Well, surprisingly little actually. Um, because, uh, so a couple of things, first of all, I mean, people might think, Oh, Terry's so courageous.

[00:49:10] Teri Bryant: She does this. I have a mandate. So it says that I'm supposed to do this. Okay. Whereas if you, if you know, if I was a federally appointed CFO, I'd get, I'd have been fired within a week. Okay. Uh, uh, foreseeing and doing the things that I do. Um, but it's not just me, you know, I have a whole team here that is helping me to, uh, establish, uh, a different way of looking at the firearms issue, a different way of relating to the firearms community.

[00:49:35] Teri Bryant: I have political support, you know, all of the ministers, including our current, uh, minister of justice, Mickey Amory. They've all been very supportive. I've spoken to the premier a few times. She's a busy lady, so I don't see her on a real regular basis, but every interaction I've had with her, she has expressed the strongest possible support.

[00:49:55] Teri Bryant: Uh, I know many of the members of cabinet and they, uh, also are very supportive. And so. You know, it's a little easier to be courageous when you know, you're not alone. Sure. Yes. So, so I don't want to overplay my, uh, you know, my valiant role in this, in this, uh, in this whole thing. Uh, but you know, I do have, uh, a lot of people who are very supportive and the thing is that the people who recognize me, like one of the things that's really been a big change in my life is I spent most of my life.

[00:50:34] Teri Bryant: In carefully cultivated, complete obscurity. Okay. I didn't want to have anything to do with the media or, or anything like that. And then I got this job and, you know, a large part of it involves talking to large numbers of people at public events, being on podcasts and all kinds of other things. I'm not a very technological person, so I don't even know all the kinds of things that I'm on or what they're supposed to be called.

[00:51:03] Teri Bryant: But. Um, if you Google my name and chief firearms officer, you'll find lots of stuff there. And so I have people come up to me all the time and say, are you, uh, yes, I mean, I was in, uh, Lethbridge last weekend for the, um, Fort Whoop Up rendezvous of the Alberta black powder shooting association. And um, I crossed the parking lot to go to the restaurant to have a bite to eat.

[00:51:32] Teri Bryant: And as I'm walking in, the guy says. Are you? Yeah. Yeah. That's me. Yeah. I've been recognized on the street and, and, and, uh, many places. So. It's not something that I would have chosen, you know, uh, it's sort of a cost that comes with the job. I mean, some people would find it nice because it, it soothes their ego, you know, that, oh yeah, people recognize me everywhere, but it means I gotta be really good because, because, you know, I'm in the public eye all the time.

[00:52:05] Teri Bryant: And So the people who recognize me are generally people who are supportive. Um, I do get some people, even at gun shows, uh, who are. Uh, less supportive of, not always of firearms per se, but of, um, well, why do they need that kind of firearm? And you know, why, why do people need a handgun? Why do they need a modern sporting rifle?

[00:52:35] Teri Bryant: Why do you need that? And you know, I've been work on converting them and pointing out, you know. I get at one time, uh, the lever action repeating rifle was considered a revolutionary increase in firepower. Um, and so, you know, now it's considered a, you know, a very sedate, uh, traditional. Uh, kind of thing. So, uh, I, I spend time, uh, to convince people that this is something that, you know, it's not, not so scary.

[00:53:10] Teri Bryant: And, and if you, um, if they, if we let them get away with taking these away, then the thing that you like next is going to be on the block. Yeah. So, um, I, I spend a fair bit of time. Uh, you know, at, at shows because it's not that there's a large number of them, but sometimes it needs a little work, you know, um, but that's part of my job.

[00:53:36] Teri Bryant: Like, basically I view my time, I have to sleep a certain number of day hours a day, but otherwise all my time is this job, you know, and. So if it's, if it takes 15 minutes to convert a person, then 15 minutes, it'll take if it takes half an hour, if it takes an hour, I just keep plugging away at it one by one, you know, you, you make convert people to the cause, or at least to being, uh, indifferent and another part of how I do that.

[00:54:09] Teri Bryant: I think I've shown you that I, I use a lot of my own firearms and I have a lot of. Very interesting historical pieces. And I can comment on the history of them. You know, this gun was, uh, was, uh, purchased by the kingdom of Siam to equip their officer core and, you know, this kind of thing. And, um, so, uh, people then view these things as in a different way.

[00:54:37] Teri Bryant: They realize, yeah, there's a lot of history there, or I point out, you know, this one was owned by my. My grandfather and then my father and then me or my father and my uncle and then me and, you know, they realize that there's family history to it, that, that many of them are historical artifacts from history writ large, not just my family and it changes people's perspective on things and they recognize that, you know, like with the, with the modern sporting rifle that, uh, modern sporting rifles that were covered by the order in council, people don't realize how broadly That there were many other types of things that are by no means modern sporting rifles or black rifles, whatever you want to call them, that are covered by that.

[00:55:22] Travis Bader: And 

[00:55:23] Teri Bryant: that's something that the federal government has repeatedly done is say, Oh, we're banning this type of gun. Oh, we're banning, you know, Saturday night specials or whatever. And then they enact a law that actually covers a lot more. Oh, yeah. And so, um, you know, that's a. Uh, there should be some kind of honesty in labeling law with respect to, with respect to laws.

[00:55:50] Teri Bryant: But, you know, it's part of my job to, uh, point these things out. And, uh, you know, I, uh, when I went to Ottawa, I took pictures, they're talking about the handgun transfer freeze when they were going to entrench it in legislation through Bill C 21. I took pictures of, you know, my Peter Soli reproduction of a Harpers Ferry flintlock, uh, and I said, you know, and, and my cap and ball revolvers and, uh, uh, which are modern production.

[00:56:21] Teri Bryant: But And I said, like, you realize that this handgun transfer freeze, this is what you're banning. This is pirate era technology. And what did they say? And they, they, well, a couple of them actually said, well, like, can I keep these pictures? So fortunately I had made numerous copies. Yes. And I said, oh, of course, you know, um, but, uh, the, the problem there is, you know, You know, a lot of things are decided in Ottawa by politics, not by rationality.

[00:56:49] Teri Bryant: And, you know, I had people who would say, yeah, you know, you pointed out good errors, good, good, you know, serious problems with this. You've come up with good compromise solutions. Nothing that I proposed. It was radical. I wasn't, you know, proposing open carry or something like that, you know, which whether you like it or not, it's, it would be quite, you have to admit that would be a radical idea in Canada.

[00:57:10] Teri Bryant: Yeah. I wasn't proposing anything like that. I was saying, well, you know, instead of this Olympic exemption, you know, let the chief firearms officer decide which organizations can write these letters or something like that. Little tweaks that could have made a big difference, but they weren't willing to even consider that.

[00:57:27] Teri Bryant: And that's what makes you realize. that this has anybody who, uh, observes that should understand then that it's not this, these laws are not based around public safety. 

[00:57:41] Travis Bader: Right. 

[00:57:41] Teri Bryant: That might be the, it's not to say that in the whole complex of Bill C 21, there's nothing that affected public safety. 

[00:57:48] Travis Bader: Okay. 

[00:57:48] Teri Bryant: But that particular thing, um, how can you argue that banning this single shot muzzle loading flintlock Is going to improve public safety that saying that that can't be transferred to anybody and it's not prohibited.

[00:58:04] Teri Bryant: It just means that you can't transfer it to anybody. I mean, I'm fond of saying the last time somebody committed a crime with one of these, it was 1820 and the guy had a patch on one eye and a parrot on his shoulder, you know, so, um, and then after doing it, he disappeared in a cloud of smoke. 

[00:58:21] Travis Bader: Well. You know, well, part of me would say, like, why, why would they proceed with those things?

[00:58:25] Travis Bader: Would it be ignorance? But clearly it can't be ignorance if they're being educated otherwise. Is it, uh, is it ego? Is it arrogance? Is there a greater political, uh, motive behind 

[00:58:38] Teri Bryant: it? What? So I'm hopeful that when the Senate faces this kind of legislation again, um, that they will do the right thing and Uh, be willing to write some of the injustices that have been, uh, perpetrated by, uh, Bill C 21 and some of the other measures that have been introduced over the years.

[00:59:04] Teri Bryant: You know, fundamentally, I mean, there are certain things that need to be done right away. You know, dropping the order in council, uh, dealing with Bill C 21 and the handgun transfer freeze. But more fundamentally, we really do need to start again. Yes. To, you know, start with a blank slate. And I'm not saying that we get rid of all the laws and then reintroduce them.

[00:59:25] Teri Bryant: I'm saying, you know, what the patchwork that we have now, where we've got Band Aid on Band Aid on Band Aid. It's incomprehensible. Okay. And, uh, so, and laws should be clear, should be simple, should be easy to administer, should be easy for people to understand. You shouldn't need to have a doctorate in law in order to figure out, and actually now, the law is so convoluted that even if you get three doctors of law, you'll get four opinions on what it's 

[00:59:55] Travis Bader: worth.

[00:59:56] Teri Bryant: Uh, so we really need to start again. And, uh, after the, the positive aspect, I always, I'm a, I'm a silver lining kind of gal. And so the, The positive aspect of this is we've got experience now. We know what will work, what won't work. We can also look at what other countries have done and what worked and didn't work there.

[01:00:19] Teri Bryant: And we can just, the core elements that have been proven to work or where there's at least a reasonable, plausible, logical case that they should 

[01:00:31] Travis Bader: work 

[01:00:32] Teri Bryant: and, uh, and get rid of the things that are only. Expensive, ineffective, and undermine confidence in the system. I mean, when we have a classification scheme and I can show you two guns that are identical, you couldn't tell them apart.

[01:00:50] Teri Bryant: And one of them is restricted and one of them is prohibited, or one of them is one category and another is another category, then, you know, that undermines people's confidence. People, if you want, the whole idea of laws is to prevent people from doing things that they might otherwise do, that they might've liked to do, but they realized, no, oh, I'm not supposed to do that.

[01:01:13] Teri Bryant: Well, they're not likely to accept those kind of, they're less likely to accept those kind of restrictions. If those restrictions don't make any sense. 

[01:01:24] Travis Bader: I agree. Yeah. I, I, I'm a firm believer that if you spend any time out in the wild, you realize that animals will take the least path of resistance and humans are animals.

[01:01:36] Travis Bader: We take the least path of resistance, the path of least resistance. Uh, and if we're able to make it, uh, Easy for the politicians to make a decision. If we're easy, make it easy for the lawmakers to, to move forward in a certain direction, they're way more likely to move there. And there's a couple of examples where I've, I've looked at, uh, different provinces sort of leading the way in certain areas and other provinces sort of copying their example.

[01:02:07] Travis Bader: One of them was, uh, Nova Scotia chief firearms officer was, uh, Introducing, uh, restrictions and amendments. I'm trying to think of what the word is on, on ranges, uh, conditions. Thank you. Uh, conditions on ranges and, uh, the new Brunswick CFO did a similar thing to one of the ranges. I think that was a Springfield range.

[01:02:30] Travis Bader: Springfield range says like, Hold on, I don't get why we have these, we've operated so long. And in fact, these conditions that are being applied, they don't make sense. And they took them to court and the, uh, New Brunswick CFO says, well, I'm just doing that because that's how the Nova Scotia CFO is doing it.

[01:02:49] Travis Bader: And that's sort of that, that normative process following the path of least resistance while somebody else did it like that. And the other one would be, um, in, um, Ontario, uh, Daniel Belofsky, he's, was a Silvercore club member and the chief firearms officer, Chris Wyatt at the time says, no, we're not going to issue you an authorization to transport, uh, until you join a range in our province.

[01:03:15] Travis Bader: And he's like, I've looked through the regulations, I've looked through everything. I don't see anything where you even get the authority to ask for that. Took them to court, uh, won, was appealed, lost, but the by product was that they no longer had to ask for, um, uh, range membership or club membership in order to have your restricted firearms license renewed and issued, or your, your ATT issued, I think was more of the provincial purview there.

[01:03:46] Travis Bader: And what I learned through that one was it was, uh, at least what was told to me, that was being run as a bit of a test case to see how they could bleed it out to other provinces. So I, I see this normative process. I see where the negative, uh, aspects of different policy are being just, well, buddy to my left or right, that's how they're doing it.

[01:04:09] Travis Bader: Are you seeing that sort of process in some of the positive aspects or other provinces looking to Alberta and saying, hold on a second, Terry makes a good point over here, maybe we should reevaluate? 

[01:04:22] Teri Bryant: Well, we have seen, we have seen some of that because, um, You know, for example, when they introduce the requirement that people that you, that a seller validate the non restricted, uh, that the, they validate the, uh, possession and acquisition license of a buyer who wants to acquire a non restricted firearm from them.

[01:04:44] Teri Bryant: Or, or.

[01:04:50] Teri Bryant: It's one of those ideas that doesn't sound all that bad in principle, but the way they did it meant that it was, uh, pretty much impossible to do it at many gun shows. And so we worked together with our federal partners in the registry to obtain these reference numbers for people. Thank you. And, uh, there has been some element of, uh, spread of an idea like that.

[01:05:17] Teri Bryant: Uh, it's, it's not challenging anything. Like we're trying to say, like, if you want people to comply with this, let's, let's make it easy or at the very least possible for them to comply. Yeah. And you know, that's the, the whole approach that we try and take is, you To, uh, facilitate people's compliance. Okay.

[01:05:41] Teri Bryant: Like we're not law enforcement, 

[01:05:44] Travis Bader: right? 

[01:05:44] Teri Bryant: We're not the ones who are going to go out and say, Oh, you're not doing that. We're going to lay a charge against you. That's not our role. Okay. Our role is to administer. The licensing scheme and the authorizations and so on, and to encourage compliance with that. Um, and encouraging compliance might be as simple as, you know, another example from, from gun shows is people are supposed to secure their guns when they're on display.

[01:06:10] Teri Bryant: And so I don't go up and pound a table and say, Hey, that gun isn't secured. I get a supply of free locks from the federal government. They're free in a sense, a lot of people don't like the idea of anything for the government is free. But, uh, we obtain them without them charging us so we can pass them on to somebody else without charging.

[01:06:31] Teri Bryant: Right. Right. And in that sense, at least people are getting something back for all the tax dollars they send to Ottawa. But you know, uh, instead of saying, Hey, you need to, to fix this situation. I go up and say, Hey, I got a bunch of trigger locks. Would you like some, you know? Uh, that gets a better reaction from people because people don't like to be told what to do.

[01:06:56] Teri Bryant: People don't like to be, to have, uh, someone suggesting that they're doing things wrong. Um, but if you can offer them something in a graceful fashion. Then that helps and, and it also encourages, you know, sometimes people come to me and they say, um, if I do this, will this comply? Is this enough? And my reaction is, well, first of all, I'm not a lawyer, so I can't give you legal advice, right?

[01:07:29] Teri Bryant: I can tell you what the law says, uh, but I'm not a lawyer. My word, just because I say it, it doesn't mean that it's the law. Okay. But, um, what I can say is here's what the law is. It kind of looks like that would maybe meet the law. Is that right? All you really want to do? 

[01:07:51] Travis Bader: Just bare minimum. 

[01:07:52] Teri Bryant: Yeah. So, I mean, when I go out driving, my, when I do a lot of driving, okay, my goal is not simply to avoid committing vehicular homicide, okay?

[01:08:04] Teri Bryant: That might be complying with the law, okay? But I've set my standard a little higher than that, 

[01:08:10] Travis Bader: okay? 

[01:08:11] Teri Bryant: And I don't maybe always meet it, but I want to be, you know, a safe, courteous driver and, you know, let people in and, you know, uh, this kind of thing. And so if we want to create a positive image of ourselves as a misunderstood minority, then it helps if we go above and beyond, you know, and so does that meet legal minimum?

[01:08:37] Teri Bryant: Well, you know, I'm not a lawyer, but It probably meets the legal minimum, but I'd suggest you do more, you know, and, uh, and so that's why, you know, when you were talking about, about getting a club membership, right? There's not, it doesn't say in the law that you have to have a club membership. That's right.

[01:08:56] Teri Bryant: Okay. What it says is that a firearms officer can't issue this to you without, uh, unless they They are satisfied that you are acquiring it for the purpose that you state. Right. Okay. The easiest way to satisfy people that you want a gun for a target practice is if you belong to a range where you, you would go to do target practice.

[01:09:18] Teri Bryant: Sure. But it's not the only way. There are other, other possibilities. You know, I always tell people, well, no, we don't legally require that. It's not an absolute mandate. It will be the first question if we have to ask you. Uh, because the way the federal government has set things up now, a lot of applications are held up for what we call confirmation of purpose, right?

[01:09:42] Teri Bryant: So we will have to ask you that. We have to ask because it says we can't do this unless we're satisfied that this is the case. But, um, you know, we, we aren't, uh, requiring this, but I always tell people, I would strongly suggest that everybody. Belong to at least one range. I belong to three. Okay. Even though I hardly get a chance to get out and shoot now because I work every weekend, but, um, the reason for that is it's very simple.

[01:10:13] Teri Bryant: Our entire. Infrastructure is under attack, like with the loss of handgun transfers, the number of handgun owners ratchets down. Then fewer people say, well, if I'm not shooting my handguns, uh, I don't, why do I need to belong to a range? So some ranges have suffered significant losses in membership. That's exactly what the feds want.

[01:10:35] Travis Bader: Right. 

[01:10:36] Teri Bryant: Okay. And so, uh, we need to continue to support our infrastructure. And I made this point when I was arguing against Bill C 21 and its pernicious effects on public safety because I said like, you know, ranges aren't only the place where firearms owners go. To shoot their guns in many places. That's where like your, uh, armored car guards go, where your police go, where, you know, people who, uh, you know, wildlife officers and so on, they need to have a place to shoot.

[01:11:12] Teri Bryant: And right now, I mean, Alberta is a very big place. You don't realize how big it is. Until you start driving around here. And even though I said, like, I've been up as far as Fort Mac, there's a whole bunch of Alberta that's further North than that. Including a couple of ranges that are in the very far North, almost to the Northwest territories.

[01:11:31] Teri Bryant: And so I'm, and I hope to get there one day, cause I want to visit everything. I want to visit every business. I want to visit every range. I want to have, I want to be in places where everybody at least has a chance. If they want to talk to me, they can come and talk to me. Okay. Uh, but, um, you know, those, um, uh, many places, the police don't have a range locally.

[01:11:58] Teri Bryant: Like they, for their annual qualification, they may have to travel hours and hours and hours to go somewhere. So they'll use the local range. Well, if the local range has to close down because they don't have enough members. then that's going to negatively affect public safety. It will, yes. And, uh, because I don't know about you, but anybody that is officially carrying a gun, I want them to be as proficient as possible.

[01:12:22] Teri Bryant: Better believe it. And so, you know, we need to ensure that there are, uh, that these ranges stay open. And, uh, it's a small, Uh, cost, you know, I mean, uh, getting an associate membership or, uh, you know, there are many rural, there's still rural, um, ranges. Some of them where it's under a hundred dollars, you know, uh, not a lot of them now because costs go up, but, but, you know, there are, uh, if we don't support those ranges, it's going to come back to haunt us because the whole model of firearms ownership in Canada, like it or not is based around.

[01:13:05] Teri Bryant: Um, and if there's no place where people can go and use them for sport, then people would say, why do you have them? 

[01:13:14] Travis Bader: Right. 

[01:13:15] Teri Bryant: And then they come for you. Right. So, you know, it's really important that we support ranges. And so I always tell people, we don't legally require it. We encourage it. And part of the reason why is it's your way of helping to support the future of firearms ownership in Canada.

[01:13:33] Teri Bryant: That's a good point. 

[01:13:34] Travis Bader: That's a good point. You brought up a couple of things here. One of them is about going above and beyond. And it brings to mind, uh, one of our instructors, he uses the acronym CYA and he's like, ask the class, you know what that stands for? And I was like, oh yeah, yeah. And he says, can you articulate?

[01:13:51] Travis Bader: Right. Oh, okay. If you're pulled over, can you articulate? If you had to stand in front of a trier of fact, can you easily articulate? And the answer is you have to do a song and dance and break out the nitty gritty fine print. Well, maybe, maybe it's going to be a lot easier if you go above and beyond. It's easy to articulate.

[01:14:12] Teri Bryant: And, uh, you know, it's also, like people, people are sometimes critical because not everybody who's responsible for, uh, or aspects of. Uh, the firearms control system, whether it's the regulatory part or the enforcement part, not everyone is an expert on all of these things. Right. And, um, you know, most of us, because of our pattern of our past, our pattern of usage and our interests, we tend to know a lot about a few things and not always a whole lot about other things.

[01:14:49] Teri Bryant: Right. Thank you. And, um, you know, I know more about firearms than most people do, but there are areas about firearms that I don't know anything about and, or very little. Uh, and so that's one of the reasons also why I go to events so that I can learn more about it and I can see how things get done and, um, you know, see how people use things in competitions.

[01:15:14] Teri Bryant: And, um, yeah. educate myself. So, you know, education isn't a, is education isn't a fact, it's a process, you know? And so, uh, I'm continually learning new things all the time about, um, you know, how, you know, when I was at the, the black powder shooting association, how do people deal with, uh, misfires or hang fires and things like that?

[01:15:39] Teri Bryant: And, you know, Uh, in a practical sense, not, not theoretically, but seeing exactly what they do and what tools they use and so on and so forth, it helps me to understand things. When will I use that? I don't know, but it's all part of my toolkit, you know, and then, uh, you know, it's part of that. I guess that's part of the reason why you go to Canadian Tire and they, They sell you a kit that has 87 wrenches in it.

[01:16:05] Teri Bryant: And am I ever going to need a six millimeter wrench? I don't know, but I'll have one 

[01:16:11] Travis Bader: for the day when it, but I want it, um, that, that learning process, you know, there, As I've, I've been doing this since about 94, started teaching in 94, the basic fire and safety course, when I came out, I incorporated Silvercore in 03 and started the firearms business license.

[01:16:29] Travis Bader: Before that I had a sole proprietorship, Silvercore Gunworks, and I was doing repair and maintenance, extended work for law enforcement. Armor car companies. And then every Joe blow and coming in with a hundred dollar gun, they bought it, a gun show that they wanted to shoot like a thousand dollar gun, but they only wanted to spend 50 bucks, but, but been doing it for a little bit.

[01:16:48] Travis Bader: And there's been a number of different interesting learning pieces. One of them. So I've been asked for both Crown as well as defense side to opine on different firearms or weapons related issues. And they go through the process and qualify you as a subject matter expert for that case on that day for that one particular area.

[01:17:09] Travis Bader: And then even if you meet that qualification, then it's okay. How much weight's going to be ascribed to this opinion. Um, there was one that was, uh, ease of conversion. There was a firearm that was being imported and they got the AOK and the firearms program turned around and says, no, it's easy to convert full auto.

[01:17:29] Travis Bader: And so I was asked to come in and take a look at this gun. And I looked at it and within about a minute of taking it apart and looking at how it operated, I figured out how you can make this thing go full auto. And so my testimony was, cause you're not an expert for the person who's hiring you. You're an expert for the court to provide them with the best possible decision.

[01:17:50] Travis Bader: My expert testimony was, it's pretty damn easy to convert, right? However, a lot of the things that are being said about where it's being made, how it's being put together and. That's completely false. And here's the information that I can show it to you. Right. As I testified first, I get to watch a second, the, uh, firearms program expert testify and it's, I've actually testified.

[01:18:13] Travis Bader: Um, he's been on a different side on other issues and I watch him. And the only thing I could come to mind was he's lying. He's lying through his teeth. He, he. He's can't be that ignorant to what the facts are. And if he had only heard my testimony, he wouldn't have had to lie. Right. Um, and so I was getting all worked up and looking like, how can somebody go up there and do this?

[01:18:36] Travis Bader: And at the end of the day, what I learned was that the recourse for this decision that was being made on the firearm is similar to the recourse for decisions for a lot of firearms issues. And it was, I think they called it a judicial review and it doesn't review whether or not the end outcome, the end conclusion that the, um, in this case, the firearms program came to doesn't review whether that was the right decision or wrong decision, it reviews if they followed the proper steps to get to that decision.

[01:19:07] Travis Bader: So that was a big, uh, learning moment for me, even if you know, a hundred percent, you're right on one thing. And in that particular instance, I agree it was, it was easy to convert. I mean, it met the definition, but even if, even if, uh, you are a hundred percent right and the opposing side comes up with something that you know to be a hundred percent wrong, Your recourse legally on that is rather constrained.

[01:19:36] Travis Bader: And if they can prove that they follow all the right steps to get there, that final decision stands in that, that leads into a, um, a moratorium that was put on, on instructors in uh, British Columbia, making new instructors. And I didn't think that was right. Other instructors says, Travis, what are you doing?

[01:19:53] Travis Bader: This is a gold mine. I mean, why would you want more instructors out here? And I said, I don't look at it like that. This isn't, this isn't my main source of income. I'm more diverse in this. And I don't like the idea of limiting legal access to firearms and the safety training and all the rest. I know what I'm going to do.

[01:20:12] Travis Bader: I'm going to hire a lawyer and I'm going to challenge this moratorium. Lawyer turns around and looks at it and says, okay, got your money here. But, um, just to let you know, I've done some research and there actually isn't a legal framework to act, compel. A firearms officer or chief firearms officer. To make new instructors, uh, in the way that there would be a legal framework for other civil servants.

[01:20:37] Travis Bader: Uh, the approach that we're taking on this one is off. We'll be lucky if they don't see costs, right? Uh, it was dropped without costs. And I was mentioning this to some buddy I know who's in the media and. He's like, like, why are you pursuing it? I said, this is a public safety thing. If this is supposed to be safety training and it's supposed to help the general public, how can they limit this?

[01:20:58] Travis Bader: He's like, well, I'll give him a phone call. So here's that learning process. He phoned up on the Friday. By Monday, the firearms program said, we've decided to change our approach and we're opening up the, um, uh, we're, we're, uh, stopping the moratorium on, uh, instructors. And we're going to make some new instructors.

[01:21:19] Travis Bader: So. What I'm trying to get across in this sort of long winded thing here is there's a lot of people in the firearms community that might not actually realize the amount of agency that they have. If they're able to show the easy path and be vocal in a positive way, uh, towards the issues that they're experiencing.

[01:21:40] Travis Bader: If they say, that's it, we're going to court. I got deep pockets and we're going after this. You're probably looking at a losing prospect. But if you take an approach of raising public attention towards these matters, I've found by and large, using that approach has, um, pressured a positive outcome. 

[01:22:01] Teri Bryant: Well, I mean, it.

[01:22:02] Teri Bryant: All of these issues, I, you know, we, we need to kind of follow multi pronged strategies. And part of the thing you, you touched on when you were talking about the number of instructors and, and that sort of thing. Every province deals with the whole issue of instructors. I'm the one who has to actually sign people's, uh, Certificates saying that they're, they're doing, but we have a, a partner, uh, that does that right at the moment.

[01:22:27] Teri Bryant: They're the ones who, who, well, for quite a few years, actually, not just this moment. Yep. They're the ones who've done it for quite a long time. And we work closely with them on that. Um, and. So other provinces do it differently. They have one of the people in the firearms office who is, uh, responsible for managing the instructors.

[01:22:49] Teri Bryant: We have a couple of our, our firearms officers who are qualified instructors here as well. So, but the thing is, Um, having, you know, uh, one prong of our strategy has to be to increase our numbers. And you can't become a legal firearms owner unless you can take the course, right? So we've got to make sure that that course is available to everybody.

[01:23:18] Teri Bryant: So in the province of Alberta, it has to be available to everybody from the U S border to the Northwest territories, from BC to Saskatchewan. It has to be available to you. Whether you're old, uh, young, uh, whether you, uh, are living with a disability, whether you, uh, are a newcomer or someone who's long established, whether you're, uh, indigenous, whether we want to make sure that that's available to everyone so that everyone, um, has the ability to join us in our, uh, Uh, in our struggles, and that I think is very important, uh, because a lot of people have the, uh, have the mistaken idea that, uh, firearms owners are just a bunch of angry old white guys.

[01:24:10] Travis Bader: Sure. 

[01:24:10] Teri Bryant: Okay. 

[01:24:11] Travis Bader: Gouge is what I've heard. Grumpy old white dudes. G O U B. 

[01:24:14] Teri Bryant: Yeah. So. But the thing is, uh, and you know, we may have an element of that, I can't deny in our, in our, uh, cadre. But, um, you know, many of like many of my firearms officers are firearms enthusiasts. I have a couple of the women who work here as firearms officers who are very avid hunters.

[01:24:35] Teri Bryant: And, uh, and, uh, you know, we have, when I. I have people from all different communities, from the South Asian community, Filipino community, you know, Chinese Canadians and, uh, Indigenous peoples and, uh, of all the different groups. Yeah. And, you know, it's, and young and old. Um, so at the Black Powder event, there was, you know, a lot of people who were 70s, 80s, even one in their 90s, um, but there were also a couple of teenagers.

[01:25:10] Teri Bryant: Right. And there, it was very interesting because you know what the other hobby of these two teenage ladies was? What? Roller derby. I love it. I love it. Yeah. I didn't even know they still did roller derby, but they were showing me pictures of, of, of that. So. That could be a brutal sport. Yeah. Well, um, it's, uh, but it shows the diversity and that's what we need to, uh, you know, we need people to understand and it will help us when we go to.

[01:25:39] Teri Bryant: Talk to different groups if people understand that diversity, that it isn't just a bunch of, uh, angry old white guys from rural areas, that we've got young urban women, that we've got people from all different ethnic, racial, religious groups that are part of that firearms community. And, um, that opens people's minds, Oh, Oh, I didn't realize that you, you were just like everybody else, except that you have this.

[01:26:09] Teri Bryant: Uh, particular interest. And so the more we can expand our numbers and the more we can, uh, expand into groups that we're not perhaps traditionally strongly inclined towards firearms ownership, the stronger our cause is going to be. 

[01:26:27] Travis Bader: So I've always looked at the, uh, firearms program. You brought this up before that you guys aren't the enforcement.

[01:26:35] Travis Bader: The body, the firearms program is, but they're the ones that, uh, help with the, I've looked at them as facilitators, essentially, how do you get you from point A to point B. And for a number of years dealing with the BC CFO's office and dealing with other provinces. That, that really was a way it's like, Hey, I'd like to do this.

[01:26:56] Travis Bader: And I want to open up a business that does this. How do I do that? Can you guide me through it? And, um, at some point things kind of changed and it looks like it's swinging back again, but things changed to a point where it was rather than being the facilitator, it was a person who tells you, no, right. Um, I'd like to do this while you can't.

[01:27:15] Travis Bader: Well, let me take a look at your business plan first and nope, doesn't meet it. Well, hold on a second. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Shouldn't you say in order to get there, your business plan has to have these steps. If you got that great, fantastic. If it doesn't, and I've, I've looked at that in like ATC issuance, I've looked at that in business, um, conditions and, and licensing.

[01:27:37] Travis Bader: Uh, I've done that. In talking with you and looking around the office and seeing where you're going here, it looks like you're taking a very grassroots approach and, uh, a facilitating approach to helping people get forward. I'm wondering is that, is that the trend within the General Firearms program to turn around and say, look, how do we facilitate?

[01:28:02] Travis Bader: 'cause I was told by some past officers that on some issues. Uh, they had a mandate to deny, to do what they could. ATCs is one of them. I was told we've got a mandate to try and limit that. The other one was a business licenses in the film industry. We've got a mandate to try and crack down and not allow people to get those.

[01:28:20] Travis Bader: Um, have you heard of those mandates? Have you seen a shift towards how do we facilitate more? 

[01:28:28] Teri Bryant: Um, well, first of all, the one place that I can definitely speak to is here and, you know, our approach like with ranges, for example, what we, what we say is it was, I'm stealing a line that was come up with by, by our senior range firearms officer.

[01:28:45] Teri Bryant: Uh, and, uh, you know, you want to have a safe place to shoot. We want to give you a safe place to shoot, you know, so, and that means, you know, we have a certain amount of expertise in making sure that. Um, certain risks that you might not have thought of are covered off. Sure. Okay. So, um, because we have the benefit, and this is part of the benefit of being part of the whole Canadian firearms program, we've got the experience of everything that's happened all across the country for decades.

[01:29:14] Teri Bryant: Okay. So, you know, we try and take that facilitative approach and it pays off. You know, um, just past weekend when I mentioned I was at this Blackpowder Rendezvous, uh, one of the participants there came up to me and said, well, I want to start a gun show in such and such a place. Where do where, uh, how do I do that?

[01:29:34] Teri Bryant: And so I said, well, here's my business plan. Uh, contact information, contact me, I'll put you an officer in touch with you, but here's a couple of key things that you want to think about, you know, security and, and, uh, different issues like that and some practical things, you know, like, Uh, get yourself a, a roll of black plastic bags so that people aren't walking out across the parking lot with a naked gun to quote an old movie, you know, that sort of thing.

[01:30:03] Teri Bryant: So, you know, uh, and, and so I'm hoping that he's going to follow through on that and we'll have another gun show. Um, because the more places there are where people can be socialized into the law abiding responsible firearms culture, the better off not only we will be, but the entire society will be. And so, you know, that's kind of the, the approach that we have taken.

[01:30:30] Teri Bryant: I think that in other provinces, a lot of times it depends on every province has its own kind of unique animal. Um, there are certain efforts. Um, you know, when we meet at, um, there's, there are a couple of meetings of chief firearms officers each year, um, and they're, they often will attempt to develop a consensus around what we, how we should do with, deal with something.

[01:30:59] Teri Bryant: Um, and, uh, you know, my response to that has, has generally been that, That seems to make sense to us. We'll probably do that, but I'm not going to be, not going to bind my hands. Okay. Because if there's a situation that comes up where that doesn't work, I'm not going to be bound by, uh, you know, by some group of people who, you know, Uh, sat around a table, uh, you know, at three o'clock in the afternoon, we're looking at their watches and decided no.

[01:31:32] Teri Bryant: Yeah. Uh, so, uh, I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with that, with how that body of, of people is deliberating, but, uh, well, the 

[01:31:42] Travis Bader: intentions are, are, you know, are good. I 

[01:31:45] Teri Bryant: mean, uh, one of the things that really bothers me, so, you know, there's a, uh, I just went through the roof when I saw this at first.

[01:31:55] Teri Bryant: Was, um, you know, the commissioner's report on firearms and a couple of years ago, there was a line and it might still be there. I don't know. I have, I, I, I look at the tables of numbers. I guess I'm a numbers person. I don't read all the footnotes, but it said that the principles of the Canadian firearms program included public safety and standardization.

[01:32:15] Teri Bryant: And, you know, like there were about three or four of them, but putting standardization on a, in the same level as public safety, you know, I, I tend to look, think of it more as I would like to see more ability for, uh, the firearms offices across the country to reflect. They're, uh, the peculiarities of that province.

[01:32:41] Teri Bryant: Okay. Uh, and, uh, so if that, that has another benefit to the whole country, that if we come up with a good idea here in Alberta and we show that it works, first of all, we need to have the freedom to do that. Right. Okay. But if we have that freedom and we do something different and we show that that works, then it works.

[01:33:08] Teri Bryant: Right. It's like what they call a natural laboratory, you know, we can, we can then say, Hey, I know you guys are doing it differently, but we did it this way and look at the great results we got. Right. And so, you know, uh, talking about our outreach program, uh, I did a presentation at the, uh, one of the recent, uh, chief firearms officers meetings about our outreach program, talking about the benefits that we get.

[01:33:37] Teri Bryant: from being out there and talking to people and, um, you know, others would like to do that. There's a lot of them there. In many cases, it's not, it comes down to the, you know, the hard matter of a budget. Sure. You know, like if, if you're in one of the smaller provinces that doesn't have much money and, Uh, you're not viewed as a high political priority, um, they don't give you any money and then you can't go out and be at gun shows, you know?

[01:34:05] Teri Bryant: Um, here in, here in Alberta, people have recognized that this is an area where we can take the lead in policy, that it's an important area to, uh, you know, I think there's a widespread political consensus. That, uh, this is an area that is of particularly critical importance in Alberta to our, uh, our culture, our way of life, our traditions, um, and, uh, and our economy.

[01:34:33] Teri Bryant: You know, I've, I've touched on that a couple of times, but, you know, the, the economic aspect is quite important and it's not just, you The jobs of people who are working in gun shops or at a, at a commercial range or something, but you know, the health of our agricultural industry and our, you know, whether it's ranching or farming, um, you know, and, uh, forestry.

[01:34:56] Teri Bryant: And then there's the whole, you know, um, tourism and outfitting, uh, aspect of it. There's a big economic footprint. And, you know, if, if there's a, an area. where somebody has been raising livestock for 150 years and suddenly they're no longer allowed to defend their livestock against predatory animals and they have to abandon their farm.

[01:35:21] Teri Bryant: That's an economic loss. It's also a huge loss to the traditions of our province, which are, you know, have their origins in those kind of industries. It's a huge loss to that family. You know, imagine you've got a, had a family ranch that's been there for 150 years and it has to be wound up because of some misguided, uh, edict coming out of Ottawa.

[01:35:48] Teri Bryant: Um, you know, we really need to, um, to emphasize The economic impact of some of these things as well. And, uh, fortunately here in Alberta, that's recognized, you know, we have a provincial government that is very keenly attuned to, uh, the different aspects of, uh, our province, which have, I mean, increasingly we do have, you know, high tech people in this building that we're in, you know, is, is high tech, uh, uh, place.

[01:36:20] Teri Bryant: There's lots of high tech businesses here, but, uh, you know, Geographically, a very large part of the province is, um, reliant on. Agriculture resource industries, whether it's forestry or mining or whatever, uh, who knows? I mean, even if you, I don't really know how, uh, I'm not an expert on things like solar energy, but, you know, you never know if we have an area where there's a big, uh, What do they call them?

[01:36:48] Teri Bryant: Solar, solar power farm. Um, you know, they may, they may have, uh, uh, bears might like that, that area or something and they need maintenance. So people have to be safe. Yeah. Um, so there's a, uh, a wide range of areas where, um, the firearms issue is of critical economic importance to Alberta. And I would, you know, I think our.

[01:37:14] Teri Bryant: Um, that's recognized by the current government. Uh, I would hope that at some point it would be, you know, my, my hope is at both the provincial and federal level that eventually the firearms issue would not be a political issue. Public safety should not be a political issue. Everybody wants public safety.

[01:37:35] Teri Bryant: And if we establish a system that is based on data, on science. on mutual understanding and developing cultures of respect, uh, from citizens between each other and between citizens and government, then, uh, this should not be a political issue. I mean, when we need changes in rules, we may need to have a vote by politicians, but there should be consensus on these things.

[01:38:06] Teri Bryant: And, uh, you know, I would, uh, if there are politicians. Federal, provincial, municipal, who want to be educated, uh, on this to really understand what's going on, um, you know, I'm here. Uh, I'm, I'm willing to meet with people to people to understand, and I think part of the reason why is I'm very proud of what we're doing.

[01:38:36] Teri Bryant: I'm proud of the work of my people here. So whether it's the day to day, You know, decisions that they make on renewing or granting firearms licenses, or whether it's the outreach that my people are doing, um, I'm very proud of what they do, and I'm proud of the initiatives that we're coming up with to address, uh, issues like firearms, um, uh, firearms misuse in domestic violence or mental health issues or things like that.

[01:39:08] Teri Bryant: Uh, we want to face those issues head on and develop. realistic, uh, workable, data based solutions to those problems. And when we do that here in Alberta, then I'm going to be preaching those, uh, as we develop and get, get more and more ideas there. I'll be out preaching to have those adopted all across the country, because our goal is to have public safety and a thriving firearms community.

[01:39:40] Teri Bryant: And those two are not just compatible. They're mutually complimentary and reinforcing. 

[01:39:46] Travis Bader: A hundred percent. Do you want to hear some questions from the public? I'm always willing to listen. Let's see what we got here. What are the trends, vibes relating to ATCs, PAL, hunting, sport shooting, industry? It's a pretty broad question.

[01:40:03] Travis Bader: Do you see any trends, uh, emerging in the, uh, in the industry or in the firearms community? Well, I see both troubling and promising trends. 

[01:40:12] Teri Bryant: Okay. And, uh, the troubling trend that I see is You know, a lot of people, they get discouraged because right now the, there's been a number of completely unjustified attacks on the firearms community and it just wears people down.

[01:40:27] Teri Bryant: Okay. Um, and people say, Oh, should I stay in business? Should I keep my guns? Should I give up hunting? You know, different things like that. And on the other side though. Uh, personally, I'm, you know, maybe it's cause I'm a half glass, a glass half full kind of a person, but I see tremendous opportunity because, uh, the failure of many of these, uh, misguided proposals is becoming increasingly evident.

[01:40:57] Teri Bryant: And uh, there's a reasonable probability that after the next election, uh, Ottawa might become more amenable to listening to reason. And, uh, so I'm actually, uh, very positive. I try to encourage people to, uh, give them hope. Uh, I try to encourage people to ride out this rough patch because there's a better day ahead.

[01:41:24] Teri Bryant: I 

[01:41:25] Travis Bader: like that. Uh, is your work different today from when you started and if so, how? 

[01:41:33] Teri Bryant: Um, well, we are kind of at an inflection point 

[01:41:38] Travis Bader: now 

[01:41:39] Teri Bryant: because when we started. Uh, we were scrambling, okay. When I took over the office, I, on September, I was only hired like a couple of weeks before the office opened. Uh, I was not, although I was, I was a member of the Alberta Firearms Advisory Committee.

[01:41:56] Teri Bryant: I was part of the, uh, recommendation to, to take over the office provincially, but then I wasn't involved in the lead up to that. Uh, and so I had no idea what I was getting into. It was like, You know, diving blindfolded off a platform and not knowing whether it's 600 feet down onto solid concrete or six inches down into a nice soft mattress, what's it going to be?

[01:42:23] Teri Bryant: It was a lot closer than 600 feet down to concrete. Um, but as we started off, you know, we were, we were scrambling. We had, uh, you know, an office that had furniture, but not much else. Uh, I had half a dozen people with me the first day. And in very short order, we got ourselves up and running, figured out what needed to be done that enabled us to, uh, apply for, uh, the, the funding that we needed to take over more of the operations from Miramichi, um, because I think things are best done close to the people, like this is an information business.

[01:43:01] Teri Bryant: All the information is here. So we are, we're now at kind of an inflection point because we're almost fully staffed and, uh, those staff now we're in the intensive training phase so that over the next number of months we'll be able to take over most of the work that Miramichi does for Alberta, um, and do that here.

[01:43:32] Teri Bryant: Uh, I've always said that this made sense because I'm responsible for the administration of the Canadian firearms program in Alberta, but I didn't have control over most of it because most of it was being done in Miramichi. And I had a certain, in theory, you could say I had control of it because for the people in Miramichi, um, who, and I, when I've met some of them, they're dedicated, great folks that work hard.

[01:44:00] Teri Bryant: But. Um, I have no idea what's going on because I would have to sign a designation order saying that, you know, Bill Smith or, uh, Jasbir Singh or whoever is, is, uh, authorized to act on behalf of, uh, Alberta, but then I had no idea of what they were doing. 

[01:44:18] Travis Bader: Right. And 

[01:44:20] Teri Bryant: so by having everything here. We will know.

[01:44:23] Teri Bryant: And then I, you know, I, I meet people. As I mentioned, I meet people all the time. I'm arm's length away from them. I'm dealing directly with them. I want to be able to tell them that I will fix their problem and be able to say, okay, uh, you know, Bill or Mary or whoever fix this person's problem and can't do that if they're 3000 miles away and I don't know what's going on.

[01:44:48] Teri Bryant: So, um, we're at that inflection point now where we've. Achieved our critical mass. There's a couple of key hires that we're still doing. We need some training, but over the next little while we will really be hitting our stride. So it's like, we've been doing all the training and now we're going to be in the Olympics.

[01:45:09] Teri Bryant: The Olympics are just a couple of months away and then we'll be able to really. Hit our stride, you know, I'm, I'm proud of how we've dealt with the challenges up to now, but I'm extremely excited by how we're going to deal with the, the expanded opportunities that achieving, uh, our, our, uh,

[01:45:36] Teri Bryant: I like that. 

[01:45:39] Travis Bader: I have my own questions, but I'm going to save those to after. Uh, I'm going to go through the ones to the public here. Um, what's the latest on the handgun confiscations post bill C 21? How did the seizures actually happen after a handgun owner dies? Who gets a letter? Who goes to collect the gear?

[01:45:55] Travis Bader: How much of a priority is this? 

[01:45:58] Teri Bryant: So, um, first of all, uh, just, I'm sure many of your listeners would already know, but Um, there is no specific confiscation plan, the same way that there is supposed to be one for the order in council firearms. Okay. Um, and I say supposed to be one because I haven't seen much evidence of there being a concrete plan.

[01:46:24] Teri Bryant: Um, but anyway, um, I think that what that question is, uh, designed about is what happens to guns when somebody dies? What happens to handguns when somebody dies? So, right now. The formal options for someone are very limited because, uh, you could sell them to a business, but most businesses don't need more handguns.

[01:46:48] Teri Bryant: Um, you could sell them to an exempt individual, but there's only a handful of those. Um, you could have them deactivated, but that's basically destroying their value. And um, and I mean, I personally, I hate to see that. So, um, you know, I. I actually have a little sign that I put when I do have a couple of deactivated guns in my collection.

[01:47:12] Teri Bryant: They were deactivated before I got them. I wasn't responsible for their deactivation. But my little sign says, in order to comply with Canada's barbaric laws requiring a desecration of precious historical artifacts, artifacts, sadly, this firearm has been deactivated. Yes. You know, so there's that. You could just surrender them and have them destroyed.

[01:47:33] Teri Bryant: Right? None of those are reasonable options. None of the things that the federal government says are options are really options, you know. Um, but, uh, and I can't counsel people, since I'm not a lawyer, I can't counsel people on exactly what they should do. However, I would point out that it's our understanding that Uh, the executor of an estate has the reasonable period of time to deal with the resolution of the estate and a reasonable period of time is not well defined in law, but it's not weeks or days.

[01:48:12] Teri Bryant: It's probably measured in years. And I think there is a reasonably good chance. That after the next election, this will become significantly less of a problem than it is now. 

[01:48:27] Travis Bader: I agree. I agree. Uh, what about exporting is exporting in the car? Yes. Uh, 

[01:48:33] Teri Bryant: it's, it's possible. Um, the problem is that most guns aren't worth enough.

[01:48:39] Teri Bryant: You know, like if it costs you, there are many companies that do this. Okay. And I'm not trying to undercut their business or anything, but if it costs you 300 to ship a gun out of the country and the guns worth 400, um, you know, how much of an option is that? Yeah. So the federal government is fond of saying, Oh, you've got all these options.

[01:48:58] Teri Bryant: Here's like your five option. Well, that's like saying, well, you can cut off your hand or you can cut off your foot Or you cut off your nose or you can cut off your ear. None of those are really options that I want to entertain. 

[01:49:10] Travis Bader: Right. I agree. That's a good way to put it. Uh, what's the latest on the rifle and shotgun confiscations?

[01:49:17] Travis Bader: May 2020 OAC has a federal department of public safety been in contact. Is the plan advancing or stalled? Um, what's Alberta's position? 

[01:49:29] Teri Bryant: Okay. So. Uh, first of all, Alberta's position from the very outset and not just my position or not just our office's position, but our provincial government's position as, uh, as articulated by, uh, cabinet has been, um, that we are absolutely opposed to this because it's a violation of people's property rights and it is a completely useless waste of valuable taxpayer money.

[01:50:01] Teri Bryant: Resources. Okay. Now, somebody, when they watch this, they'll probably say, well, but property rights aren't protected in Canada. Well, maybe not, but, uh, they're not, they're not well protected in Canada, but, uh, some people would say, are you really violating them? But personally, I don't believe that governments give us rights.

[01:50:22] Teri Bryant: I agree to me, depending on whether you're religious or not. Your rights are either God-given or innate. Right. Governments can recognize them or protect them. Mm-Hmm. But they don't give you rights. Mm-Hmm. Okay. But that's a bit of a philosophical, uh, you know, digression. So we've always been very strongly opposed to this.

[01:50:45] Teri Bryant: And, uh, that has played itself out in a number of ways. So, for example, uh, a previous Minister of Justice and Solicitor General, um, issued. Uh, I'm not sure what they're called protocols or something like that, indicating that no provincial resources were to be used, no provincially funded resources were to be used and, and things like that.

[01:51:07] Teri Bryant: So that has limited the options for the implementation of this program, but it is, it is not considered legally legitimate for the province to, um, we can't obviate a law. We can't say this law is invalid here. Okay. That's. Uh, but it doesn't mean we have to help, and so that's what these protocols, uh, help to do.

[01:51:38] Teri Bryant: Also, it's my responsibility as, uh, Chief Firearms Officer, and particularly under the Alberta Firearms Act, to ensure that anything that is done is done safely. And so, uh, we have the power to regulate. seizure agents. There's a fancy legal definition, but basically that would be anybody who is involved in some kind of confiscation program like this.

[01:52:05] Teri Bryant: Um, we have the power to regulate them to ensure that whatever activities they conduct are conducted in a, uh, lawful and safe manner. And, um, you know, my, my Sometimes my federal counterparts say, well, you know, like surely what we're going to do it in a safe way. That's, you know, why would you need to have the power to regulate that?

[01:52:30] Teri Bryant: But then they came up with the idea of collecting them in, in post offices that, that have locks that a six years, six year old could, could break through. And so, you know, it is an important thing. Um, and we can't, we can't say that, no, you can't do this. Yeah. But we can say that if you're going to do this, we're going to make sure that Albertans get treated fairly, and we're going to make sure that the way you do it doesn't, uh, expose Albertans to undo, undo risk.

[01:53:02] Teri Bryant: And fortunately, I think, uh, they have not yet figured out a way to do it that, uh, would meet even minimal public safety, uh, requirements. Um, the way I see things playing out, I don't have a crystal ball, um, neither the pre prime federal prime minister nor the, any of their cabinet, uh, whisper little nothings into my ear.

[01:53:32] Teri Bryant: Um, but the way I see it playing out is that I think it's likely that there'll be. By the time of the next election, they'll probably be able to do something on the collection of business inventories, because there are many businesses that have been sorely hurt by having to maintain stocks that they can't sell.

[01:53:54] Teri Bryant: You know, they're paying interest on money for years, interest rates have been high, and so that's been a burden for them. But in, and for many businesses, not all of them, but for many businesses, it's inventory, you know, uh, but. Uh, individuals, it's a whole different thing because we are much more attached to our stuff.

[01:54:17] Teri Bryant: The things I have are not just inventory to me. They are historical artifacts, they're, uh, treasured heirlooms, uh, they are, uh, they have a significance that goes well beyond their monetary value. And so, um, we. want to make sure that anything that, uh, the feds do, they do in a Uh, a safe manner. They haven't come up with a way to do that, but I think that, uh, I don't think they'll be able to make much progress by the next election on actually collecting them from individuals.

[01:54:57] Teri Bryant: I agree. Um, and I, in some respects, and here I'm going into, you know, uh, I'm not, I'm also, I get give lots of, of caveats. I'm not a political analyst. Okay. I'm not, uh, uh, I don't have a doctorate in political science. But. I would think that it, there's a certain confluence of interest because it probably makes sense for them to not complete it by the time of the next election, because it will be troublesome.

[01:55:33] Teri Bryant: It will cause friction and, uh, negative publicity if they try to push it. By the time of the next election. 

[01:55:45] Travis Bader: Yeah. Here's one from a business owner and he says, one thing that would be really good as an API or API access to PAL so that we can auto verify when we ship regulated items, has there been any chat that you've heard of, of implementing sort of APIs to, um, to cross check people's licenses so that businesses can be compliant?

[01:56:10] Teri Bryant: Well, businesses have access to a system for verifying that people's PALs are valid now. I mean, uh. But it's not a, 

[01:56:18] Travis Bader: an application protocol interface or whatever the thing called. I don't understand that technology. Fair enough. It's something that'll, uh, allows the back end to talk without the, without a human having to be on the front end searching it.

[01:56:32] Teri Bryant: I have not seen anything in, uh, Their plans, um, and we do get updates on things, but they are expanding the capability. So they're expanding the capabilities of automation in the system all the time. Like you can now apply for your pal online and many other things you can apply online. Um, but on the other hand, anything that would make it possible to, to, um, make it easier on the firearms community isn't always.

[01:57:06] Teri Bryant: I mean, some of these things, I mean, it is, it does make it easier when people can apply for PALS, but The, the specific objective of making life easier isn't necessarily one of the top priorities, I think, in, in those, uh, efforts. So the short answer is, I've given you a long answer, now I'll give you the short answer is, I don't know.

[01:57:28] Teri Bryant: I don't think so. 

[01:57:30] Travis Bader: Fair enough. Um, what are your thoughts on auditory health slash medical benefits of sound moderators slash suppressors? Police use them, is what the question was. 

[01:57:43] Teri Bryant: Uh, well. From the very beginning, I've been a, a strong believer that we need to, uh, consider legalizing, uh, suppressors and not just for the reason that was stated.

[01:57:57] Teri Bryant: Uh, if you visit any area where there's a lot of old timers, many of them, uh, started using firearms before, uh, hearing protection, a lot of them have, have, uh, hearing issues. Thank you very much. And there are times when hearing issues are not easily dealt with by earmuffs or, or things like that. So there's, there's that issue.

[01:58:21] Teri Bryant: Uh, the hearing health is certainly an important part, but another part of this issue I think is preserving our ranges because ranges that are close to cities increasingly are under pressure because the city grows out to where the range was. It was originally in an isolated area. Nobody cared about the noise.

[01:58:42] Teri Bryant: Now there are houses that are close by. If people were using suppressors, the noise would be a much less significant issue. I think they probably, we need to figure out what kind of a regulatory framework would be around them. Um, I, I probably wouldn't favor just removing all restrictions on them until we at least studied whether that was going to be a good thing, but definitely I think Pitt.

[01:59:11] Teri Bryant: They should play a role in firearms usage in, in the future in Canada. They do in many other countries, including countries that have even more restrictive firearms laws than we do. 

[01:59:22] Travis Bader: England is one of them. I remember I was in Scotland, I was walking from Inverness to the Loch Ness. I want to check out, go for a swim in their, their cold lake over there.

[01:59:29] Travis Bader: And, uh, I saw this guy in his field and I was like, Hey, I recognize what he's got set up over there, looks like a little covered shooting area. And he was shooting, I thought I'll, I'll go chat with them. And he had a suppressor on his rifle. And so Canada, those are illegal. He's like, really? I can't shoot my rifle without it here.

[01:59:47] Travis Bader: Cause I live in X proximity to my neighbors and the laws say I have to have it. Yep. Interesting. Um,

[01:59:57] Travis Bader: there's, there's one. What are your thoughts on the utility of the AR 10 ESP, especially, I guess, as a SIG 308 offering. In wildlife conservation officer use, many Western Canadian provinces switched to them beginning in 2018. And I think this individual is probably looking at the, comparing and contrasting, I'm going to go out on a limb here, uh, how, um, ARs aren't, or apparently aren't suitable for, um, hunting or wildlife control.

[02:00:28] Travis Bader: Yet the, uh, provinces are, are using them for, for wildlife control within their government agencies. 

[02:00:38] Teri Bryant: Well, uh, so I guess the, on, on the broader point, I'm not always, uh, I'll confess that I'm not always up on exactly the latest models or whatever everything is, but on the basic point, um, you know, what really determines.

[02:00:53] Teri Bryant: How suitable a firearm is for a given purpose is primarily its caliber and secondarily things like weight and length and that sort of thing. And so, um, the idea that some bureaucrat in Ottawa is better able to decide what is useful or suitable for, uh, someone in the field to use. Uh, I find. To be a difficult proposition to support, it's, uh, the people who are in the field know what they need and, um, they should be allowed within reason to choose the tools that are going to most appropriately help them to do the job, to continue with our, with our, um, our, uh, little analogy that we were using before.

[02:01:43] Teri Bryant: You know, uh, the last thing a mechanic needs is somebody reaching over his shoulder and saying, Oh no, you, you really should be using the, the, you know, the, the, uh, uh, closed end wrench, not the open ended wrench in that application, you know? Uh, well, let the person who's doing the job figure it out. 

[02:02:03] Travis Bader: Yeah. Uh, here's one from a, um, a business, uh, just says clarified legal status of guns, not listed in OIC.

[02:02:12] Travis Bader: But the FRT's changed after the fact, also guns that have no FRT, period. For example, no legal document states that ATRS Modern Series, Daria MK 12, and the Maccabee Defense are prohibited, or a reason why, though the FRT got changed. 

[02:02:30] Teri Bryant: If I could answer questions like that, so I would, I mean, part of the federal government has gone completely out of control on these issues.

[02:02:44] Teri Bryant: And so, you know, it's one thing to pass a regulation that says, uh, these specific things are prohibited. You can agree with it. You can disagree with it. But, at least you know what they have said is okay and not okay. But the way they have been willy nilly trying to expand, uh, the list of prohibitions, I've heard, the latest number I've heard is that it's grown from the original 1, 500 to 2, 000.

[02:03:14] Teri Bryant: And it wouldn't surprise me if it's even more. Um, it's not how you should be making law. Um. Um. Um. And, uh, I'm not, neither a lawyer nor a judge, nor certainly not a Supreme Court justice. And it may take that to, to come up with a definitive answer to that question, but it's not how we should be making law.

[02:03:34] Travis Bader: Mm hmm. And we think one thing that became really clear was, uh, I think it was Murray Smith during the, um, uh, during the legal challenge that came up, I was asked to hope high on a few issues and had to sit in on the, on the court proceedings, but, uh, he repeatedly kept saying, you know. FRTs have no bearing in law.

[02:03:54] Travis Bader: They're not, it's something that, uh, the firearms program makes for a, so that they have a reference of things, but it is not designed specifically to influence law, to classify that's done by politicians. So that was something that he mentioned on a few different occasions. Yeah. Um,

[02:04:18] Travis Bader: what are your thoughts on ATCs as well as wilderness carry, I'm not sure quite, maybe I'll just stop it as what is your thoughts on ATCs because wilderness carry of non restricted firearms is kind of a moot point. 

[02:04:33] Teri Bryant: Yeah. So, um, obviously, uh, so authorizations to carry, there's sort of three broad areas about me before.

[02:04:46] Teri Bryant: So, um, So there's one area is authorizations to carry for defensive life, and those are exceptionally hard to get in Canada because the legal bar is extremely high. And very soon, I probably will not have any control over that at all because Bill C 21 centralizes that power with the Commissioner of Firearms.

[02:05:09] Teri Bryant: And so, uh, as far as I have seen, they haven't come out with the procedures. Um, but, uh, I think that was a disastrous decision because the whole point of that in the current framework is that the, uh, the need must be imminent, imminent risk to life. Well, if the risk is imminent, that's just the answer has to be imminent, right?

[02:05:37] Teri Bryant: Not depend on going up a chain of authority, many levels high to the commissioner of firearms And I don't know the background really of the current commissioner of firearms, but one previous one, of course, is well known for having said she knew nothing about the law in this area. So I don't see what the benefit is of introducing those many levels of additional scrutiny to a process that was already very.

[02:06:08] Teri Bryant: Um, the authorizations to carry for, um, for like, um, armored car guards and people like that, that's a relatively routine and, uh, un, uh, uncontroversial, uh, area. Although I would mention, um, when we took over the previous federal office had not done any of the renewals of those. So we had about, we had to immediately.

[02:06:40] Teri Bryant: Launch, they're all, they all come due at one time of year. And if we had not launched a crash campaign to get them done in just a matter of a couple of weeks, all the movement of cash in the province of Alberta would have ground to a halt as with likely significant negative effects on the, The province as a whole, so, you know, when we're talking about economic importance of firearms, there's a very good example.

[02:07:07] Teri Bryant: And so we prioritize that practically above almost everything else in order to not shut down the economy. So, uh, then there's the trappers. That's a relatively uncontroversial thing too. Um, and the wilderness carry, um, is a bit, uh, broader, uh, you know, with the trappers generally, um, that's a, people sort of self identify, you know, they've taken trapper course, they've got a trap line and so on and so forth.

[02:07:38] Teri Bryant: The one that poses some, um, more difficult challenges is the authorization to carry, um, in the sort of wilderness protection against, uh, uh, wildlife. Yeah. And. Um, so the key thing about that is that it does have to be professional. Okay. Like it's occupational. So it might be a better term, um, whether it should be or not, that's a question we could discuss, but there's no doubt that right now the law says, you know, if you're just out hiking in the wilderness, regardless of whether you spend 24 hours a day, seven days a week in an area full of grizzly bears and cougars and Wolverines, and I don't know.

[02:08:24] Teri Bryant: Wolverines are nasty. I don't know. Did they ever had to actually attack people? Um, can have, yep. Yeah. I'm not, I, I, you know, I'm, I'm not as up on my, uh, wilderness who's who, as you would be. Sure. Sure. Uh, cause that's your, your area of expertise. But, um, you know, uh, It doesn't matter how much time you spend there, if you're not working there, it's not an option.

[02:08:49] Teri Bryant: Okay. Um, so, uh, you know, we, we have, that there are provinces where there's virtually no need for them. You know, like if you're in Prince Edward Island, I don't think there's any grizzly bears in Prince Edward Island. I'm not sure there's anything big enough to pose a threat to people in Prince Edward Island, but there's certainly much less than there is in Alberta, at least.

[02:09:12] Teri Bryant: Okay. Okay. So. Um, they may, I don't know whether they even have that category as something that they do as part of their product line at the chief firearms office there. But here it certainly is part of our product line because we've got lots of grizzly bears, we've got lots of cougars, we've got lots of wolves, we've got lots of, Other things that are, um, ready.

[02:09:34] Teri Bryant: Wild animals, red in tooth and claw. Yeah. Uh, that, um, uh, pose potential risks. And, uh, so it is something that we issue on a, you know, uh, we have to follow the federal guidelines on it, but we, uh, do issue them on a fairly regular basis. And, uh, you know, one that people often don't think about. Um, is, uh, if you, for example, are a rancher in an area near the Rockies and there's grizzly bears roaming around and you're out working on your fence, um, a case might be made that you need, uh, uh, to have an ATC when you're out there so that you come back at the end of the day.

[02:10:22] Teri Bryant: Um, and you know, we've taken a relatively flexible position on these things. It's not. The Wild West, not open season, just come in and say you want one. But, um, if you can make a reasonable case for it, then, um, it is something that people need here. There's a legitimate need for that here in Alberta. 

[02:10:44] Travis Bader: Yeah.

[02:10:44] Travis Bader: There's a checklist you guys have to go through that all fire and officers has have to go through. 

[02:10:49] Teri Bryant: But what I would like to emphasize though, is that people should be thinking of that as A last resort, you know, that, uh, number one should be, uh, being bear aware and, uh, you know, making sure that you are.

[02:11:05] Teri Bryant: Uh, not exposing yourself to undue risk. Okay. Uh, and, um, everyone that I have spoken to who actually works with bears, like bear specialists, people whose whole job is bears say bear spray is generally going to be more effective because it's not as required, closer requirement for accuracy as a backup. Um, a firearm could be a useful thing in some cases.

[02:11:34] Teri Bryant: Uh, I would like to see. people have a high degree of proficiency if they're in those, uh, if they're going to be using a firearm for a purpose like that. Um, but, Like I said, it's a legitimate thing. It's legally allowed and we do it. 

[02:11:53] Travis Bader: I remember years ago, there was a, uh, a gun store in, in Surrey and the police kept coming by that store because there's some gangsters that are coming in and kept warning them.

[02:12:04] Travis Bader: I mean, Hey, these guys are violent. There's going to be some problems. And they're like, Oh, yeah. Well, maybe we should be seeing if we should get an ATC here. I mean, there's another store in BC where they were robbed and they, I think it was a husband and wife. They both got executed in there and they used that as an example and, and a few others.

[02:12:21] Travis Bader: And the, they applied for ATCs for protection of their life based on what was going around and the information they were getting from police. Um. Provided them training. They're highly proficient. They met all of the protocol up into the point where the fire's program says, look, you've met everything that we're looking for, for the issuance.

[02:12:45] Travis Bader: We just need a letter from the chief of police in Surrey here saying that. Um, their protection is not adequate. They said, it can't come from a police officer. It's gotta be the chief of police. And they got to say the protection is not adequate for you. And, and then we'll issue it to you. Of course, there's no chief of police is going to turn around and say that the protection that they have to offer is not adequate.

[02:13:06] Travis Bader: And that's where it was finally stymied. Um, have you heard of incidences where people actually are successful in obtaining a ATC? Like I've, I've heard a hearsay. I've, I've heard people tell me wink, wink, nudge, nudge. 

[02:13:22] Teri Bryant: Well, for defensive life, you mean? For defensive life. Well, defensive life is such a rare category that I can't, for security reasons, I can't tell you exactly what we've done, but like in all of Canada.

[02:13:34] Teri Bryant: You're talking about a handful of people, 

[02:13:35] Travis Bader: right? Okay. 

[02:13:36] Teri Bryant: And so it's not something that comes up, I can't say in 50 percent of cases when you're talking about a handful of the country, you know, so, um, but in any cases I've indicated, it's kind of a moot question for us because at any day I'm expecting to have that power completely removed from me.

[02:13:56] Teri Bryant: Um, and then it will be the commissioner of firearms. And I suspect that whatever decision I would have made. The Commissioner of Firearms might be even, might be considerably more reticent to issue, uh, than I would have been. Um, and, you know, I understand, you know, like when I grew up, some of the places we lived, it was quite a distance to a phone, 

[02:14:24] Travis Bader: let 

[02:14:24] Teri Bryant: alone to a police station.

[02:14:26] Teri Bryant: Yeah. So I understand people have a variety of, of security needs. And, you know, perhaps that would be something that a future government will revisit, but certainly this one's not prone to reconsideration of such 

[02:14:39] Travis Bader: things. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that we should be talking about? 

[02:14:47] Teri Bryant: Uh, well, we've covered quite a lot of ground here today, uh, Travis, but, um, I guess, you know, you know, if I were closing things out, I always just want to, you know, Uh, give people some reassurance that, uh, we might be in somewhat dark times in the firearms community at the moment, given the unfounded attacks that have been made on our community and many of the ill advised measures that we've been subjected to.

[02:15:23] Teri Bryant: But the firearms community is not without friends. We do have friends in Ottawa. We have friends, our provincial government is a very strong supporter of law abiding firearms owners. I am working every single day of all of my energy, uh, to try and make sure that the firearms community has a bright future.

[02:15:50] Teri Bryant: And as long as we are able to have a system where firearms ownership is, uh, regulated in a fashion To ensure that it's consistent with public safety, then, uh, I think that we will, in the end, be successful in convincing enough people in Ottawa to make the rules that we need, and that we here, in the province of Alberta, will be leading the way in showing the rest of the country how those laws can then be interpreted in a fashion that is helpful to the firearms community, and And entirely consistent with public safety and, uh, then basically spreading the gospel across the country as, uh, Alberta leads the way in this area, as in so many other aspects of government policy.

[02:16:46] Travis Bader: Trevor Burrus Terry, it was an absolute pleasure having you on the Silvercore podcast. Thank you very much. 

[02:16:50] Teri Bryant: Terry Claggett Thank you very much, Travis. I very much enjoyed, uh, being here with you and sharing some of the exciting things that we're doing here. And keep the faith folks, we'll get through this period.